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What would also be ideal is that people use smaller, lighter vehicles, slower too, but max speeds should be regulated anyway. Electric energy really shines for

What would also be ideal is that people use smaller, lighter vehicles, slower too, but max speeds should be regulated anyway. Electric energy really shines for light vehicles, not really in the Tesla trend (2T with 500kg batteries). It doesn't make a lot of sense to travel alone in 2Tonnes personal vehicles, for an average travel of a few kilometers, mostly in city

DangitBobby 4y ago
Range anxiety is going to drive battery weights up for a while still, probably. The only way people will adopt EVs than can only go 50 miles on a charge is if they become much cheaper than ICEs, IMO. Like, on the order of $5k. Even then, the fear of being crushed by an SUV would be a barrier to adoption.
- adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
  the 5k EV that can go 50 miles exists and is called an E-bike :)
  - yCombLinks 4y ago
    I can't get groceries or ride to work in the rain on an ebike. And I've biked to work for years, I'm not antibike. But it doesn't solve the same issues.
    - thethethethe 4y ago
      You can get a cargo bike with a rack on the back or a tub in the front. My ebike can hold over 150lbs on the back and I took it grocery shopping back before I lived in walking distance of grocery stores
    - 11235813213455 4y ago
      If you exclude work and food, what's the remaining usage of a bike? leisure? I've been 100% bike for all my adult life 20 years long, half of it commuting, half remote work, groceries up to 20kg (I carry crates on my handlebar), rain is annoying, but it's like people on motorbike, with proper clothes it's fine, but it's indeed less easy than a personal car. but not so much about natural elements, more because the cities are built for cars
    - timbit42 4y ago
      You can put groceries in an Organic Transit ELF or a BetterBikes PEBL. These are enclosed, recumbent, tadpole trikes with room for the driver along with two small children, one adult, or groceries.
  - DangitBobby 4y ago
    Totally. But I doubt those will see wide adoption either.
- 11235813213455 4y ago
  > the fear of being crushed by an SUV would be a barrier to adoption or trucks and buses, as a cyclist the difference is even worse, but speed regulation really helps for that fear
- njarboe 4y ago
  These $5k cars already exist. The Hongguang Mini has about a 100 mile range and sells for about $5k in China. Let me buy one. The US has a high level of safety requirements on cars not just to protect people but also to protect domestic auto manufactures from cheap auto imports.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    If your hypothesis was true then there wouldn't be similar safety requirements in most advanced countries, even those without local auto industries.
- _greim_ 4y ago
  Anecdotally, range anxiety drove me to pay an electrician to run a 50 amp circuit to my garage for faster charging, which has gotten us out of many "oh crap we have to leave in an hour and only have 10% charge" tight spots. It was crazy expensive since the electrician had to run a conduit around the entire house, but still an order of magnitude cheaper than buying a higher-range car.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    You can buy a 19.2kW level 2 charger now that will add just over a mile a minute of range (though I don't believe any consumer EVs are on the market just yet which support that rate). For a few more bucks (more than a few, really, but still attainable) it's possible to install a 25kW DC charger at home that would probably work with most EVs today. I've no need for it myself, we just charge at regular old 32A from a 14-50 wall socket, but it's interesting to watch the market evolve. Maybe 19.2kW will become the new normal.
doubled112 4y ago
I can't figure out why vehicles all need to be massive living rooms on wheels. People drive pickups to the office. Laptops must be a heavier load than I remember. Ford won't even sell anything smaller than a compact SUV in North America. Even discounting electric cars, imagine the environmental savings that could have been made if subcompacts became the norm instead?
- samtho 4y ago
  > Ford won't even sell anything smaller than a compact SUV in North America. Did they stop selling the focus? It’s among one of the best selling vehicles of all time.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Yes. The only cars Ford sells now are the Mustang and the Ford GT. Sales were slipping on the sedans and hatchbacks because the crossovers get good enough fuel efficiency in comparison but are a lot more useful as a daily driver.
- toast0 4y ago
  > Ford won't even sell anything smaller than a compact SUV in North America. It's easier to meet US fuel efficiency standards with larger cars. There's ramps on the standards, so small cars are disappearing; small trucks are already gone. An 80s s-10 or similar with a regular cab and small engine is low weight, fairly small footprint, decent mpg, etc. A 2020 small truck built in the same footprint, but with a 40 year newer drivetrain would be pretty useful, but nobody will sell those in the US. Yes, you couldn't fit more than two people comfortably and three if you squeeze; yes, you couldn't (or shouldn't) tow anyhthing of stature; but it would be great for people who need an ocassional truck for furniture or dirt or etc, and don't need people carrying capacity. Light pickup truck hybrid could sip gas, and stuff the batteries under the bed for plug-in range, and also keep weight on the rear. Kei trucks look fun too, but hard to import them.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > I can't figure out why vehicles all need to be massive living rooms on wheels. Because we have a free market and that's what people buy. Unless you think you can gain enough political advantage to force people to bend to your will, persuasion is probably the best strategy. The top three vehicles by sales in the US are all light duty trucks, so to a rough approximation the people you need to convince are "everybody."
Tade0 4y ago
You mean the ultimate stage of vehicular evolution, the humble golf cart? I lived in Italy for a couple of years and it appears to be the case there. The most popular SUV-ish car back then, as explained to me by my Italian friend, was the Qashqai. Anything larger is just awkward. Also for cars they often shop local, because Italian brands know their customers well and offer vehicles which out of context are just plain weird, like the 4x4 Fiat Panda. There's still a lot of congestion, but smaller cars manage it better because you can squeeze three of them in two lanes on intersections if need be. Also with few SUVs on the road you see many more other modes like scooters and even Tuk-Tuks.

DangitBobby 4y ago

Range anxiety is going to drive battery weights up for a while still, probably. The only way people will adopt EVs than can only go 50 miles on a charge is if they become much cheaper than ICEs, IMO. Like, on the order of $5k. Even then, the fear of being crushed by an SUV would be a barrier to adoption.

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
the 5k EV that can go 50 miles exists and is called an E-bike :)
- yCombLinks 4y ago
  I can't get groceries or ride to work in the rain on an ebike. And I've biked to work for years, I'm not antibike. But it doesn't solve the same issues.
  - thethethethe 4y ago
    You can get a cargo bike with a rack on the back or a tub in the front. My ebike can hold over 150lbs on the back and I took it grocery shopping back before I lived in walking distance of grocery stores
  - 11235813213455 4y ago
    If you exclude work and food, what's the remaining usage of a bike? leisure? I've been 100% bike for all my adult life 20 years long, half of it commuting, half remote work, groceries up to 20kg (I carry crates on my handlebar), rain is annoying, but it's like people on motorbike, with proper clothes it's fine, but it's indeed less easy than a personal car. but not so much about natural elements, more because the cities are built for cars
  - timbit42 4y ago
    You can put groceries in an Organic Transit ELF or a BetterBikes PEBL. These are enclosed, recumbent, tadpole trikes with room for the driver along with two small children, one adult, or groceries.
- DangitBobby 4y ago
  Totally. But I doubt those will see wide adoption either.
11235813213455 4y ago
> the fear of being crushed by an SUV would be a barrier to adoption or trucks and buses, as a cyclist the difference is even worse, but speed regulation really helps for that fear
njarboe 4y ago
These $5k cars already exist. The Hongguang Mini has about a 100 mile range and sells for about $5k in China. Let me buy one. The US has a high level of safety requirements on cars not just to protect people but also to protect domestic auto manufactures from cheap auto imports.
- mlindner 4y ago
  If your hypothesis was true then there wouldn't be similar safety requirements in most advanced countries, even those without local auto industries.
_greim_ 4y ago
Anecdotally, range anxiety drove me to pay an electrician to run a 50 amp circuit to my garage for faster charging, which has gotten us out of many "oh crap we have to leave in an hour and only have 10% charge" tight spots. It was crazy expensive since the electrician had to run a conduit around the entire house, but still an order of magnitude cheaper than buying a higher-range car.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  You can buy a 19.2kW level 2 charger now that will add just over a mile a minute of range (though I don't believe any consumer EVs are on the market just yet which support that rate). For a few more bucks (more than a few, really, but still attainable) it's possible to install a 25kW DC charger at home that would probably work with most EVs today. I've no need for it myself, we just charge at regular old 32A from a 14-50 wall socket, but it's interesting to watch the market evolve. Maybe 19.2kW will become the new normal.

doubled112 4y ago

I can't figure out why vehicles all need to be massive living rooms on wheels. People drive pickups to the office. Laptops must be a heavier load than I remember. Ford won't even sell anything smaller than a compact SUV in North America. Even discounting electric cars, imagine the environmental savings that could have been made if subcompacts became the norm instead?

samtho 4y ago
> Ford won't even sell anything smaller than a compact SUV in North America. Did they stop selling the focus? It’s among one of the best selling vehicles of all time.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Yes. The only cars Ford sells now are the Mustang and the Ford GT. Sales were slipping on the sedans and hatchbacks because the crossovers get good enough fuel efficiency in comparison but are a lot more useful as a daily driver.
toast0 4y ago
> Ford won't even sell anything smaller than a compact SUV in North America. It's easier to meet US fuel efficiency standards with larger cars. There's ramps on the standards, so small cars are disappearing; small trucks are already gone. An 80s s-10 or similar with a regular cab and small engine is low weight, fairly small footprint, decent mpg, etc. A 2020 small truck built in the same footprint, but with a 40 year newer drivetrain would be pretty useful, but nobody will sell those in the US. Yes, you couldn't fit more than two people comfortably and three if you squeeze; yes, you couldn't (or shouldn't) tow anyhthing of stature; but it would be great for people who need an ocassional truck for furniture or dirt or etc, and don't need people carrying capacity. Light pickup truck hybrid could sip gas, and stuff the batteries under the bed for plug-in range, and also keep weight on the rear. Kei trucks look fun too, but hard to import them.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> I can't figure out why vehicles all need to be massive living rooms on wheels. Because we have a free market and that's what people buy. Unless you think you can gain enough political advantage to force people to bend to your will, persuasion is probably the best strategy. The top three vehicles by sales in the US are all light duty trucks, so to a rough approximation the people you need to convince are "everybody."

Tade0 4y ago

You mean the ultimate stage of vehicular evolution, the humble golf cart? I lived in Italy for a couple of years and it appears to be the case there. The most popular SUV-ish car back then, as explained to me by my Italian friend, was the Qashqai. Anything larger is just awkward. Also for cars they often shop local, because Italian brands know their customers well and offer vehicles which out of context are just plain weird, like the 4x4 Fiat Panda. There's still a lot of congestion, but smaller cars manage it better because you can squeeze three of them in two lanes on intersections if need be. Also with few SUVs on the road you see many more other modes like scooters and even Tuk-Tuks.