5 ms·

All of the services you mentioned are debit cards, not credit cards. US debit cards are basically free as well, it's just that nobody uses them.

dylan604 4y ago
>it's just that nobody uses them. that's a bold claim. not everyone bows down to the uber robber barons of the credit companies. i have no credit cards and am surviving life just fine thank you very much. i know i'm not alone.
- refurb 4y ago
  But you’re paying the fee for credit cards anyways, just not getting anything in return including consumer protection that credit cards offer.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Yeah, no. In another comment, I mentioned shopping at places that give discounts for using cash/debit instead of credit. No all proprietors are greedy assholes to charge everyone for services not used. I choose to do business with these shops.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Sure some do, but it’s an exception rather than a rule. Generally you’re already paying the market up for the credit card fee but get none of the benefits. Id rather take the benefits.
- optymizer 4y ago
  this discussion would be more productive with some data: * 83% of adults have at least one credit card * 41% adults actually used a credit card in 2020 https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2020-banking-and-credit.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-we...
  - ivalm 4y ago
    41% had credit card debt, presumably a larger amount used them.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Right. Unpaid balance over at least one month. Although some people probably just have a credit card for emergency purposes, I assume that most people who have a credit card do use it over the course of a year.
      - ivalm 4y ago
        absolutely, just replying to the poster saying that only 41% used a credit card, which would imply majority of americans don't.
        dylan604 4y ago
        There's a bit of HN bias here. Just thinking of the lower income or non-white side of the country. So many people don't even have a checking account (4.5% households or 5.9million )[0] let alone a debit card. There's no way they have credit cards. While it may be a low percentage number, 5-7million people is not "nobody". Question I would stipulate would be adults vs minors in that number. [0]https://news.yahoo.com/number-americans-without-bank-account-184639468.html https://news.yahoo.com/number-americans-without-bank-account... (households translates to how many people?) [1]https://www.gao.gov/blog/more-7-million-u.-s.-households-have-no-bank-account.-why https://www.gao.gov/blog/more-7-million-u.-s.-households-hav... (7.1million from April 2022)
- MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  Yes credit cards are insane. There should be no difference between buying a 50k car with a bank card or a 50 cent plastic bag. Both transactions use the exact same network.
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    One of the transactions carries more risk. Risk has a cost. I don’t mean to defend credit card companies, but it’s not as black and white either.
philsnow 4y ago
> it's just that nobody uses [debit cards] Nobody in your bubble. Just off the top of my head I know a couple people who don't have a single credit card, one is mid-50s, one just turned 70. > US debit cards are basically free I agree that they're basically free to process payments from, but there are invisible costs to the cardholder associated with using them vs credit cards (less buyer protection, overdraft storms if you accidentally zero your account). I'm not aware of any downsides of keeping at least one or two credit cards, except for the potential to put oneself in debt. Unfortunately for some people, keeping a credit card is untenable because they're unable to stop themselves from using them.
- nightpool 4y ago
  Actually, I don't even have a credit card myself. My comment was about observing the general behavior of businesses I frequent—only one (a cost-conscious grocery store) won't take credit cards. I've just never needed to go through the hassle of getting one, myself. Absolutely agree re: cardholder costs. In addition it what you said about fees and liability (although I'm lucky to have a bank that doesn't charge overdraft fees), I'm probably leaving a fair bit of money on the table that I could be making back up with credit card rewards / incentives if I wanted to spend the time on it. My comment was only about costs to the merchant, since that's what GP was talking about.
  - philsnow 4y ago
    > I'm lucky to have a bank that doesn't charge overdraft fees Name-and-fame them (if it wouldn't dox yourself), that's awesome! Are they more lik ea credit union or more like a bank? > I'm probably leaving a fair bit of money on the table I have some family who keep ~8 (rewards/travel) credit cards and maximize the incentives by keeping in mind all the categories + percentages for each card, including the couple of them that have rotating categories. It's not a whole lot but it makes my head spin. I just have a Costco visa and I use it for everything that isn't from Amazon (for which I have a set-and-forget Amazon visa) or Apple (because I'm not going to turn down 0% financing for 24 months with the Apple card). I'm also leaving money on the table... but I don't exactly clip coupons and I even throw away produce (!) that has gone bad through neglect.

dylan604 4y ago

>it's just that nobody uses them. that's a bold claim. not everyone bows down to the uber robber barons of the credit companies. i have no credit cards and am surviving life just fine thank you very much. i know i'm not alone.

refurb 4y ago
But you’re paying the fee for credit cards anyways, just not getting anything in return including consumer protection that credit cards offer.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Yeah, no. In another comment, I mentioned shopping at places that give discounts for using cash/debit instead of credit. No all proprietors are greedy assholes to charge everyone for services not used. I choose to do business with these shops.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Sure some do, but it’s an exception rather than a rule. Generally you’re already paying the market up for the credit card fee but get none of the benefits. Id rather take the benefits.
optymizer 4y ago
this discussion would be more productive with some data: * 83% of adults have at least one credit card * 41% adults actually used a credit card in 2020 https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2020-banking-and-credit.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-we...
- ivalm 4y ago
  41% had credit card debt, presumably a larger amount used them.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Right. Unpaid balance over at least one month. Although some people probably just have a credit card for emergency purposes, I assume that most people who have a credit card do use it over the course of a year.
    - ivalm 4y ago
      absolutely, just replying to the poster saying that only 41% used a credit card, which would imply majority of americans don't.
      - dylan604 4y ago
        There's a bit of HN bias here. Just thinking of the lower income or non-white side of the country. So many people don't even have a checking account (4.5% households or 5.9million )[0] let alone a debit card. There's no way they have credit cards. While it may be a low percentage number, 5-7million people is not "nobody". Question I would stipulate would be adults vs minors in that number. [0]https://news.yahoo.com/number-americans-without-bank-account-184639468.html https://news.yahoo.com/number-americans-without-bank-account... (households translates to how many people?) [1]https://www.gao.gov/blog/more-7-million-u.-s.-households-have-no-bank-account.-why https://www.gao.gov/blog/more-7-million-u.-s.-households-hav... (7.1million from April 2022)
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
Yes credit cards are insane. There should be no difference between buying a 50k car with a bank card or a 50 cent plastic bag. Both transactions use the exact same network.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  One of the transactions carries more risk. Risk has a cost. I don’t mean to defend credit card companies, but it’s not as black and white either.

philsnow 4y ago

> it's just that nobody uses [debit cards] Nobody in your bubble. Just off the top of my head I know a couple people who don't have a single credit card, one is mid-50s, one just turned 70. > US debit cards are basically free I agree that they're basically free to process payments from, but there are invisible costs to the cardholder associated with using them vs credit cards (less buyer protection, overdraft storms if you accidentally zero your account). I'm not aware of any downsides of keeping at least one or two credit cards, except for the potential to put oneself in debt. Unfortunately for some people, keeping a credit card is untenable because they're unable to stop themselves from using them.

nightpool 4y ago
Actually, I don't even have a credit card myself. My comment was about observing the general behavior of businesses I frequent—only one (a cost-conscious grocery store) won't take credit cards. I've just never needed to go through the hassle of getting one, myself. Absolutely agree re: cardholder costs. In addition it what you said about fees and liability (although I'm lucky to have a bank that doesn't charge overdraft fees), I'm probably leaving a fair bit of money on the table that I could be making back up with credit card rewards / incentives if I wanted to spend the time on it. My comment was only about costs to the merchant, since that's what GP was talking about.
- philsnow 4y ago
  > I'm lucky to have a bank that doesn't charge overdraft fees Name-and-fame them (if it wouldn't dox yourself), that's awesome! Are they more lik ea credit union or more like a bank? > I'm probably leaving a fair bit of money on the table I have some family who keep ~8 (rewards/travel) credit cards and maximize the incentives by keeping in mind all the categories + percentages for each card, including the couple of them that have rotating categories. It's not a whole lot but it makes my head spin. I just have a Costco visa and I use it for everything that isn't from Amazon (for which I have a set-and-forget Amazon visa) or Apple (because I'm not going to turn down 0% financing for 24 months with the Apple card). I'm also leaving money on the table... but I don't exactly clip coupons and I even throw away produce (!) that has gone bad through neglect.