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I believe Powers said that the decision of whether to take the pill was up to him, though the public did apparently think he should have killed himself to avoid

I believe Powers said that the decision of whether to take the pill was up to him, though the public did apparently think he should have killed himself to avoid the diplomatic incident.

jjtheblunt 4y ago
> the public did apparently think he should have killed himself this makes me feel again that there's a recurring phenomenon with humanity, where spending the assets (life, in this case) of others is seen as selfishly strategic
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  One game theory result I remember is the hypothetical situation of two people dropped onto a grid with radios who must rendezvous. Apparently the game theoretical optimal strategy is to establish contact, inform the other person of one's location and the fact that one is destroying one's radio, then actually destroy the radio...
  - DFHippie 4y ago
    A different version has them needing to meet with no possibility of communication, only knowledge that each has the same map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_(game_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_(game_theory)
  - havblue 4y ago
    I suspect that the game theory aspect of the u2 spying wasn't as well thought out. At least, they probably didn't think that anyone would actually survive being shot down from that height. Forget about how the pilot might act when captured.
  - jagged-chisel 4y ago
    I’m missing some details here. Why destroy the radio?
    - saghm 4y ago
      I imagine to force the other person to have to come find you. If they think they can still talk to you, they might delay going to your location in the hopes that they can convince you not to make them do all the work.
      - carlmr 4y ago
        This seems short sighted. Maybe the other person didn't understand you properly, and even if they're motivated enough to go to you, they won't find you, because you were not clear about your location on that single radio call.
        082349872349872 4y ago
        worse than short sighted, it may be technically optimal but is hardly fair.
saalweachter 4y ago
I believe it's also occasionally brought up that the public was generally on the side of the National Guard re: the Kent State Shootings. The public sucks sometimes.
- microsoftdoes 4y ago
  If you throw rocks at a military unit and then chase them as they try to retreat, you’re fair game. Throwing rocks is no small matter. A single blow from a rock can kill a man. Not to mention that this was part of a series of demonstrations that had already devolved into outright rioting.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Well geez, really glad that killing a few students defused that series of demonstrations! Err, wait, it didn't accomplish that at all.
  - smnrchrds 4y ago
    > Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, “At least we got four of them.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/04/19/girl-kent-state-photo-lifelong-burden-being-national-symbol/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/04/19/girl-kent...
    - microsoftdoes 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - s5300 4y ago
        Person who generally has empathy towards the human condition, deeply cares about others, & the advancement of sustainable humanity. Do you disagree? Keep in mind that a prominent conservative US talking point for the past few decades has been “I’d rather be a Russian than a democrat” Given we’re posting on HN, take that as you may.
LarryMullins 4y ago
It's not that Powers was obliged to kill himself. Powers had a choice, either take the suicide pill, or don't talk if you're captured. He chose option 3, he talked. Having to make such a choice is certainly not an enviable position to be in, but Powers never had to take this job. I certainly never would have accepted it, I think most people wouldn't.

I believe Powers said that the decision of whether to take the pill was up to him, though the public did apparently think he should have killed himself to avoid the diplomatic incident.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

> the public did apparently think he should have killed himself this makes me feel again that there's a recurring phenomenon with humanity, where spending the assets (life, in this case) of others is seen as selfishly strategic

082349872349872 4y ago
One game theory result I remember is the hypothetical situation of two people dropped onto a grid with radios who must rendezvous. Apparently the game theoretical optimal strategy is to establish contact, inform the other person of one's location and the fact that one is destroying one's radio, then actually destroy the radio...
- DFHippie 4y ago
  A different version has them needing to meet with no possibility of communication, only knowledge that each has the same map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_(game_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_(game_theory)
- havblue 4y ago
  I suspect that the game theory aspect of the u2 spying wasn't as well thought out. At least, they probably didn't think that anyone would actually survive being shot down from that height. Forget about how the pilot might act when captured.
- jagged-chisel 4y ago
  I’m missing some details here. Why destroy the radio?
  - saghm 4y ago
    I imagine to force the other person to have to come find you. If they think they can still talk to you, they might delay going to your location in the hopes that they can convince you not to make them do all the work.
    - carlmr 4y ago
      This seems short sighted. Maybe the other person didn't understand you properly, and even if they're motivated enough to go to you, they won't find you, because you were not clear about your location on that single radio call.
      - 082349872349872 4y ago
        worse than short sighted, it may be technically optimal but is hardly fair.

saalweachter 4y ago

I believe it's also occasionally brought up that the public was generally on the side of the National Guard re: the Kent State Shootings. The public sucks sometimes.

microsoftdoes 4y ago
If you throw rocks at a military unit and then chase them as they try to retreat, you’re fair game. Throwing rocks is no small matter. A single blow from a rock can kill a man. Not to mention that this was part of a series of demonstrations that had already devolved into outright rioting.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Well geez, really glad that killing a few students defused that series of demonstrations! Err, wait, it didn't accomplish that at all.
- smnrchrds 4y ago
  > Some Kent residents raised four fingers when they passed each other in the street, a silent signal that meant, “At least we got four of them.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/04/19/girl-kent-state-photo-lifelong-burden-being-national-symbol/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/04/19/girl-kent...
  - microsoftdoes 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - s5300 4y ago
      Person who generally has empathy towards the human condition, deeply cares about others, & the advancement of sustainable humanity. Do you disagree? Keep in mind that a prominent conservative US talking point for the past few decades has been “I’d rather be a Russian than a democrat” Given we’re posting on HN, take that as you may.

LarryMullins 4y ago

It's not that Powers was obliged to kill himself. Powers had a choice, either take the suicide pill, or don't talk if you're captured. He chose option 3, he talked. Having to make such a choice is certainly not an enviable position to be in, but Powers never had to take this job. I certainly never would have accepted it, I think most people wouldn't.