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> 2-core CPU (x86_64), 7 GB of RAM, 14 GB of SSD space This is comparable to what several of my friends are using right now, two of whom are trying to get into

> 2-core CPU (x86_64), 7 GB of RAM, 14 GB of SSD space This is comparable to what several of my friends are using right now, two of whom are trying to get into IT (so mostly doing frontend development), because the economy fucked them over for the third time in their lives. They're also in their 30s. This is nothing unusual at all. It's pretty sad how out of touch this place can be. Not everyone in this world makes $20k a month and can buy macbooks as they come out.

dijit 4y ago
1) A good computer is your primary working tool; so developers spring for the best ones they can afford; even companies are known for kitting developers with "better than office" grade machines 2) if your friends are doing frontend and cant afford a computer that is less than 10 years old; they need to negotiate better 3) most people aren't developing on their own personal computers 4) $20k is about half of what I take home a year in the EU; yet somehow I am running a quad core laptop and 16G of ram... for the last 8 years.
- 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
  This is precisely what I'm talking about. > $20k is about half of what I take home a year in the EU So… roughly $3300 a month? One of my friends makes 10× less than that. It's right around the mean salary. Edit: I originally stated (incorrectly) that $300 is close to the median salary. It's even worse — it's a mean. Our bureau of statistics doesn't publish the median, and I mixed them up. I also make significantly less than that, and it's considered a good salary here. > computer that is less than 10 years old I checked several online stores just to be sure. They have lots of new laptop models with 2-core Celeron CPUs (or low-tier Intel i3s), and 4 GBs RAM, for $350 or a bit more. They've been selling like hot potatoes since the start of the pandemic because many can't afford anything else (and didn't have a computer before that — too expensive). But yeah, we should just stop being poor. I get it.
  - scott_w 4y ago
    > But yeah, we should just stop being poor. I get it. I'm not sure where this sentiment is coming from. We're talking about business equipment with the aim of making a profit for your company here. If your company can only afford to provide $350 laptops to the software development team then they're going to have a hard time. That's not a value judgement, that's just a statement of fact. It's like getting annoyed at logistics enterprises because they point out you need to lay out a few million dollars for trucks and warehouses. I can't afford to do that so it looks like, even if I wanted to, I'm not going to start a heavy goods transport business.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      In a low cost of living area you can hire cheap developers and not worry about the time they spend. Or you can work on low value things that companies that can afford more expensive machines can't make enough profit on to be worth it. Though of course if your area is ever discovered (including remote work) the high value companies will come after you for the cheap good developers, give them better machines and repeat the rewards of good developers.
      - scott_w 4y ago
        > In a low cost of living area you can hire cheap That holds true for other industries. Taking logistics: maybe a company uses motorbikes to move smaller packages around, rather than lorries, storing outdoors, etc. It still doesn't answer my question of where the "just don't be poor" sentiment came from. Maybe the OP is just having a bad day :-)
  - dijit 4y ago
    The other reply by scott_w is basically my sentiment here, dev tools are tools for business, the intent is make a profit. However, and please don't read this as charity, I would be really happy to send you some of my outdated equipment. I have a Precision 5520 (Xeon E3-150M v6, 512G NVMe, 16G DDR4, ANSI Keyboard) which I bought with my own money that is collecting dust, it will fry any of those machines you mentioned. I will send it for you for no money, just shipping (from EU).
tjoff 4y ago
You could buy something much better for $500 new. Something for $1000 bought a decade ago would be much better. Getting something used you could get way way lower than that. I'm aware that I am privileged (barely a tiny fraction of $20k a month though, and wouldn't buy a macbook even if I thought it was worth the money)

dijit 4y ago

1) A good computer is your primary working tool; so developers spring for the best ones they can afford; even companies are known for kitting developers with "better than office" grade machines 2) if your friends are doing frontend and cant afford a computer that is less than 10 years old; they need to negotiate better 3) most people aren't developing on their own personal computers 4) $20k is about half of what I take home a year in the EU; yet somehow I am running a quad core laptop and 16G of ram... for the last 8 years.

5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
This is precisely what I'm talking about. > $20k is about half of what I take home a year in the EU So… roughly $3300 a month? One of my friends makes 10× less than that. It's right around the mean salary. Edit: I originally stated (incorrectly) that $300 is close to the median salary. It's even worse — it's a mean. Our bureau of statistics doesn't publish the median, and I mixed them up. I also make significantly less than that, and it's considered a good salary here. > computer that is less than 10 years old I checked several online stores just to be sure. They have lots of new laptop models with 2-core Celeron CPUs (or low-tier Intel i3s), and 4 GBs RAM, for $350 or a bit more. They've been selling like hot potatoes since the start of the pandemic because many can't afford anything else (and didn't have a computer before that — too expensive). But yeah, we should just stop being poor. I get it.
- scott_w 4y ago
  > But yeah, we should just stop being poor. I get it. I'm not sure where this sentiment is coming from. We're talking about business equipment with the aim of making a profit for your company here. If your company can only afford to provide $350 laptops to the software development team then they're going to have a hard time. That's not a value judgement, that's just a statement of fact. It's like getting annoyed at logistics enterprises because they point out you need to lay out a few million dollars for trucks and warehouses. I can't afford to do that so it looks like, even if I wanted to, I'm not going to start a heavy goods transport business.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    In a low cost of living area you can hire cheap developers and not worry about the time they spend. Or you can work on low value things that companies that can afford more expensive machines can't make enough profit on to be worth it. Though of course if your area is ever discovered (including remote work) the high value companies will come after you for the cheap good developers, give them better machines and repeat the rewards of good developers.
    - scott_w 4y ago
      > In a low cost of living area you can hire cheap That holds true for other industries. Taking logistics: maybe a company uses motorbikes to move smaller packages around, rather than lorries, storing outdoors, etc. It still doesn't answer my question of where the "just don't be poor" sentiment came from. Maybe the OP is just having a bad day :-)
- dijit 4y ago
  The other reply by scott_w is basically my sentiment here, dev tools are tools for business, the intent is make a profit. However, and please don't read this as charity, I would be really happy to send you some of my outdated equipment. I have a Precision 5520 (Xeon E3-150M v6, 512G NVMe, 16G DDR4, ANSI Keyboard) which I bought with my own money that is collecting dust, it will fry any of those machines you mentioned. I will send it for you for no money, just shipping (from EU).

tjoff 4y ago

You could buy something much better for $500 new. Something for $1000 bought a decade ago would be much better. Getting something used you could get way way lower than that. I'm aware that I am privileged (barely a tiny fraction of $20k a month though, and wouldn't buy a macbook even if I thought it was worth the money)