4 ms·

I can’t comment on Google specifically but it is possible to have de jure controlling interest, while another party has de facto control because they can threat

I can’t comment on Google specifically but it is possible to have de jure controlling interest, while another party has de facto control because they can threaten to unload a huge position and tank the price.

usea 4y ago
Even in that scenario, the people making that threat are not actually in control. The ones with control are choosing to do this, rather than lose money. These people are not forced to make more money at the expense of others. It's their choice.
- FPGAhacker 4y ago
  What a useless distinction.
  - cool_dude85 4y ago
    Seems pretty useful to me, as it accurately depicts who holds decisionmaking power and what the actual threat is.
    - ggm 4y ago
      But it completely ignores the commercial reality: 10% of your holdings making a move is sometimes enough to swing a board decision. Look at AGL in Australia and the recent play by Grok ventures. Nothing like 50% + 1. They moved the mountain.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        You are conflating control with influence. Control is the ability to make a unilateral decision, consequences be damned. Influence is the ability to impose costs and benefits on a decision maker so that they do what you want
        ggm 4y ago
        No disagree but also.. this is nitpicking. Everyone reading the flow knows what was meant here: change was effected by a significant minority of shareholders exerting influence. You would not be wrong saying colloquially "they were made to" or "had to" even though legally no force exists. Well clearly to a nitpicker you would be wrong, but half the room is now rolling their eyes. Don't be that kid.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I don't think it is nitpicking. There are 40+ posts debating who has control and talking past eachother because they are using different definitions.
      - sebzim4500 4y ago
        Yes 10% of your company being sold at once would be alarming. Thing is TCI does not have anything like that much. They have ~0.5% of the equity and less than 0.5% of the votes.
  - insaneirish 4y ago
    It's not useless. If the threat is that unloading a position will cause a dip in shareholder value of $X, but those actually in control believe their own thesis and operating model is worth more than $X, then they can choose to weather the storm, believing their way will negate the loss of $X. If they really don't have an answer to the activist investor's thesis, then yea, they'll roll over.
UncleMeat 4y ago
Thank the price? With 0.5%? I'd be stunned if Googlers themselves didn't sell 6B in GOOG annually.
- vermilingua 4y ago
  Employees liquidating their ESOP is a very different market signal than a single institutional investor deciding they no longer want to hold any GOOG.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    They're still one relatively teeny investor in a company with a gargantuan market cap. Nobody really cares that much whether they hold or sell. More likely, though I haven't read their letter in depth, is that their beliefs actually aren't that far out there - I mean, you probably aren't going to get pushback from anyone if you say "Google is bloated and needs to trim and focus". So they write a letter and make some noise, and then when Google makes some rather unsurprising changes they can say something like "look how influential and prescient we are", and that has value in the investment world.

usea 4y ago

Even in that scenario, the people making that threat are not actually in control. The ones with control are choosing to do this, rather than lose money. These people are not forced to make more money at the expense of others. It's their choice.

FPGAhacker 4y ago
What a useless distinction.
- cool_dude85 4y ago
  Seems pretty useful to me, as it accurately depicts who holds decisionmaking power and what the actual threat is.
  - ggm 4y ago
    But it completely ignores the commercial reality: 10% of your holdings making a move is sometimes enough to swing a board decision. Look at AGL in Australia and the recent play by Grok ventures. Nothing like 50% + 1. They moved the mountain.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      You are conflating control with influence. Control is the ability to make a unilateral decision, consequences be damned. Influence is the ability to impose costs and benefits on a decision maker so that they do what you want
      - ggm 4y ago
        No disagree but also.. this is nitpicking. Everyone reading the flow knows what was meant here: change was effected by a significant minority of shareholders exerting influence. You would not be wrong saying colloquially "they were made to" or "had to" even though legally no force exists. Well clearly to a nitpicker you would be wrong, but half the room is now rolling their eyes. Don't be that kid.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I don't think it is nitpicking. There are 40+ posts debating who has control and talking past eachother because they are using different definitions.
    - sebzim4500 4y ago
      Yes 10% of your company being sold at once would be alarming. Thing is TCI does not have anything like that much. They have ~0.5% of the equity and less than 0.5% of the votes.
- insaneirish 4y ago
  It's not useless. If the threat is that unloading a position will cause a dip in shareholder value of $X, but those actually in control believe their own thesis and operating model is worth more than $X, then they can choose to weather the storm, believing their way will negate the loss of $X. If they really don't have an answer to the activist investor's thesis, then yea, they'll roll over.

UncleMeat 4y ago

Thank the price? With 0.5%? I'd be stunned if Googlers themselves didn't sell 6B in GOOG annually.

vermilingua 4y ago
Employees liquidating their ESOP is a very different market signal than a single institutional investor deciding they no longer want to hold any GOOG.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  They're still one relatively teeny investor in a company with a gargantuan market cap. Nobody really cares that much whether they hold or sell. More likely, though I haven't read their letter in depth, is that their beliefs actually aren't that far out there - I mean, you probably aren't going to get pushback from anyone if you say "Google is bloated and needs to trim and focus". So they write a letter and make some noise, and then when Google makes some rather unsurprising changes they can say something like "look how influential and prescient we are", and that has value in the investment world.