4 ms·

systemd has amazing documentation, you just have to read them...

egberts1 4y ago
I think a link prominently placed on their website would be helpful. Also systemd documentation isn't compliance with: * Tutorial * Explaination * How To * Reference For instance, I want to know which part of systemd uses `SYSTEMD_DEBUG`. Hold on ... I am digging thru the Git repo. Screw the systemd manual: Here's my environment variable reference guide for debugging systemd (that is NOT documented by systemd) https://egbert.net/blog/articles/debugging-a-service-in-systemd.html https://egbert.net/blog/articles/debugging-a-service-in-syst...
- mariusor 4y ago
  > I think a link prominently placed on their website would be helpful. It's such a weird disconnect seeing people that can't go outside of the mindset that everything is a web application. Systemd ships their documentation (most of what you asked for, actually) with the package, and their environment variables description can be found in /usr/share/doc/systemd/ENVIRONMENT.md (at least on my machine). When you're dealing with the applications which form the building blocks of a *nix environment your first step should not be google, but grepping through the /usr/share/doc, and using the apropos and man commands.
  - egberts1 4y ago
    Right. But still, I had to do some digging and this time it only came from its source code for description, references, and still no How To.
    - mariusor 4y ago
      > still no How To. How to what? systemd umbrella contains a lot of functionality, just like the detractors keep on telling us. If you found a way to improve the systemd documentation you should probably reach out to the devs: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/docs https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/docs
      - egberts1 4y ago
        Still no debugging HOWTO, much less (but still poorly documented) DEBUG-related environment variables? If you want people to troubleshoot your stuff (which is arguably the #1 documentation to start with), gotta start someplace (which is for most of us is agrep'ing the code, or save yourself a step and look at my link). Or the RedHat/IBM systemd development team can quit doing that terse but cryptic error code output. Or the documentation team can start covering these error codes. But having to do any form of "agrep" is a sign of poor ... everything, unless formenting job security is what the ultimate goal is.
  - pm90 4y ago
    > It's such a weird disconnect seeing people that can't go outside of the mindset that everything is a web application. I don’t think thats what’s happening here. Providing online documentation thats easy to read, easy to navigate has become quite standard of all kinda of projects and systems. My main programming environment is a mac so Im certainly not gonna have the locally installed docs anyway. Not only does a good online documentation make it easier to understand for an individual, but it makes it easy to share links etc to others to help them understand too. And the easier it is to comprehend, the better.
    - mariusor 4y ago
      iOS is not a target for systemd, and the building blocks of a *nix system probably are not the building blocks of iOS. > Not only does a good online documentation make it easier to understand for an individual, but it makes it easy to share links etc to others to help them understand too God forbid developers package their software considering the needs of users that don't have 24/7 internet access. If it wasn't clear from my previous statement, this is what I wanted to express by the "mindset that everything is a web-application".
  - egberts1 4y ago
    Documentation and Systemd will remain a weird disconnect. until it address the 4-ways Divio documentation methods. https://documentation.divio.com/ https://documentation.divio.com/

I think a link prominently placed on their website would be helpful. Also systemd documentation isn't compliance with: * Tutorial * Explaination * How To * Reference For instance, I want to know which part of systemd uses `SYSTEMD_DEBUG`. Hold on ... I am digging thru the Git repo. Screw the systemd manual: Here's my environment variable reference guide for debugging systemd (that is NOT documented by systemd) https://egbert.net/blog/articles/debugging-a-service-in-systemd.html https://egbert.net/blog/articles/debugging-a-service-in-syst...

mariusor 4y ago
> I think a link prominently placed on their website would be helpful. It's such a weird disconnect seeing people that can't go outside of the mindset that everything is a web application. Systemd ships their documentation (most of what you asked for, actually) with the package, and their environment variables description can be found in /usr/share/doc/systemd/ENVIRONMENT.md (at least on my machine). When you're dealing with the applications which form the building blocks of a *nix environment your first step should not be google, but grepping through the /usr/share/doc, and using the apropos and man commands.
- egberts1 4y ago
  Right. But still, I had to do some digging and this time it only came from its source code for description, references, and still no How To.
  - mariusor 4y ago
    > still no How To. How to what? systemd umbrella contains a lot of functionality, just like the detractors keep on telling us. If you found a way to improve the systemd documentation you should probably reach out to the devs: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/docs https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/docs
    - egberts1 4y ago
      Still no debugging HOWTO, much less (but still poorly documented) DEBUG-related environment variables? If you want people to troubleshoot your stuff (which is arguably the #1 documentation to start with), gotta start someplace (which is for most of us is agrep'ing the code, or save yourself a step and look at my link). Or the RedHat/IBM systemd development team can quit doing that terse but cryptic error code output. Or the documentation team can start covering these error codes. But having to do any form of "agrep" is a sign of poor ... everything, unless formenting job security is what the ultimate goal is.
- pm90 4y ago
  > It's such a weird disconnect seeing people that can't go outside of the mindset that everything is a web application. I don’t think thats what’s happening here. Providing online documentation thats easy to read, easy to navigate has become quite standard of all kinda of projects and systems. My main programming environment is a mac so Im certainly not gonna have the locally installed docs anyway. Not only does a good online documentation make it easier to understand for an individual, but it makes it easy to share links etc to others to help them understand too. And the easier it is to comprehend, the better.
  - mariusor 4y ago
    iOS is not a target for systemd, and the building blocks of a *nix system probably are not the building blocks of iOS. > Not only does a good online documentation make it easier to understand for an individual, but it makes it easy to share links etc to others to help them understand too God forbid developers package their software considering the needs of users that don't have 24/7 internet access. If it wasn't clear from my previous statement, this is what I wanted to express by the "mindset that everything is a web-application".
- egberts1 4y ago
  Documentation and Systemd will remain a weird disconnect. until it address the 4-ways Divio documentation methods. https://documentation.divio.com/ https://documentation.divio.com/