4 ms·

Is this only RE-trains and trams not IC/ICE-trains, just like the 9 euro ticket? If so long distance travel is not really practical.

ido 4y ago
It is. I believe it's meant to encourage commuting by train, not long range travel. It's for example now significantly cheaper that the normal Berlin yearly ticket was while also increasing coverage.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  IMO, the most effective way to make people commute by public transport is to make parking difficult and expensive. People spend hundreds a month commuting by car so the issue is not the price of train tickets, it's that people prefer to drive as it's more comfortable and convenient. But now, if you cannot park or it will cost you a fortune you'll think 'fuck it, I will take the train'.
  - ckdot 4y ago
    In Germany it’s not unusual that you need about 3x the time by train instead if you go by car. You can’t force those who have to commute to go by train. You have to force employers to provide (maybe not only provide, but enforce) remote work options for all the jobs where it’s simply not necessary to be on-site.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      Right, public transport is also usually slower. My point is that cutting ticket prices isn't going to make people suddenly use public transport because it's not an affordability issue.
      - iggldiggl 4y ago
        Unfortunately cutting ticket prices is the quick political win, so instead of actually better public transport we'll only get it cheaper…
      - ido 4y ago
        For some people it is. I personally know people here in Berlin (or rather around Berlin, zone c) that in the past would drive instead of taking transit into the city a couple times per week because if you already have a car it’s cheaper than buying the Berlin A-C monthly ticket (the one that takes you all the way from the suburbs the city center). This is now no longer the case, and being able to use the same ticket elsewhere in Germany is a nice little perk. Obviously it depends on where in Germany you are but in/around Berlin while driving is often faster it’s usually not such a big gap because you’d be stuck in traffic in a car but not on the train. It would often be more like ~50 minutes instead of 40 (but then you can read a book on the Regio/S-Bahn instead of focusing ok driving).
deleted 4y ago
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wongarsu 4y ago
To put some numbers on "not really practical": Munich to Berlin (570km/350mi) takes 4 hours on the fastest train, and about 9 hours on trains covered by this 49€ per month ticket. Practical for a student looking to get around cheaply, but anybody who makes above median income would prefer the faster ICE on such routes
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  Usually the car is preferrable, as it avoids the problem to get to the train station and from the final station to the destination. Plus, free choice of departure time, and no issues with carrying baggage from train to train. Of course trains have some advantages, too.
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    In this instance the train is actually a good bit faster (4 hours vs 6). And of course on a train you can read, work, watch Netflix, on a car you are limited to podcasts and audio books
  - rerx 4y ago
    The car is absolutely not preferable if you value using your time for anything else than staring at the road and concentrating on driving. Google Maps also suggests 6.5 hours by car compared to 4.5 hours by train between Munich and Berlin.
MandieD 4y ago
The financially-constrained people I know usually don’t use the IC/ICE - they take the extra hour or two to save 30+ EUR. Plus, making the IC/ICE all you can ride for 1/10th the current all-you-can-ride price would make getting to the airport or next big city for urgent business as dicey as going anywhere fun on the regional trains this summer was. As a German taxpayer, I’m absolutely fine with the 49 EUR ticket not covering the fast trains, but making in-region commuting cheaper and simpler. A Nürnberg-only ticket is something on the order of 60 EUR/mo with an annual contract or 80 if you can’t commit, so this is going to be at least 10 EUR/mo. back in the pockets of a lot of people it really matters to (tickets that cover suburbs like Erlangen are even more expensive).
- throwaway4good 4y ago
  I would be worried that the German public transit would be strained further; I remember crowded and massively delayed trains this summer. It semms like an odd policy to split public transport into a cheap, crowded and unreliable part while you have nice modern trains running half empty.
  - dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
    > nice modern trains running half empty Anecdotally, reserving a ticket (with a seat) on IC/Es on the same day as you travel has been quite hard for me unless you splurge on 1st class or travel at unusual times. I do travel on quite a busy route however.

ido 4y ago

It is. I believe it's meant to encourage commuting by train, not long range travel. It's for example now significantly cheaper that the normal Berlin yearly ticket was while also increasing coverage.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
IMO, the most effective way to make people commute by public transport is to make parking difficult and expensive. People spend hundreds a month commuting by car so the issue is not the price of train tickets, it's that people prefer to drive as it's more comfortable and convenient. But now, if you cannot park or it will cost you a fortune you'll think 'fuck it, I will take the train'.
- ckdot 4y ago
  In Germany it’s not unusual that you need about 3x the time by train instead if you go by car. You can’t force those who have to commute to go by train. You have to force employers to provide (maybe not only provide, but enforce) remote work options for all the jobs where it’s simply not necessary to be on-site.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Right, public transport is also usually slower. My point is that cutting ticket prices isn't going to make people suddenly use public transport because it's not an affordability issue.
    - iggldiggl 4y ago
      Unfortunately cutting ticket prices is the quick political win, so instead of actually better public transport we'll only get it cheaper…
    - ido 4y ago
      For some people it is. I personally know people here in Berlin (or rather around Berlin, zone c) that in the past would drive instead of taking transit into the city a couple times per week because if you already have a car it’s cheaper than buying the Berlin A-C monthly ticket (the one that takes you all the way from the suburbs the city center). This is now no longer the case, and being able to use the same ticket elsewhere in Germany is a nice little perk. Obviously it depends on where in Germany you are but in/around Berlin while driving is often faster it’s usually not such a big gap because you’d be stuck in traffic in a car but not on the train. It would often be more like ~50 minutes instead of 40 (but then you can read a book on the Regio/S-Bahn instead of focusing ok driving).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

wongarsu 4y ago

To put some numbers on "not really practical": Munich to Berlin (570km/350mi) takes 4 hours on the fastest train, and about 9 hours on trains covered by this 49€ per month ticket. Practical for a student looking to get around cheaply, but anybody who makes above median income would prefer the faster ICE on such routes

someweirdperson 4y ago
Usually the car is preferrable, as it avoids the problem to get to the train station and from the final station to the destination. Plus, free choice of departure time, and no issues with carrying baggage from train to train. Of course trains have some advantages, too.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  In this instance the train is actually a good bit faster (4 hours vs 6). And of course on a train you can read, work, watch Netflix, on a car you are limited to podcasts and audio books
- rerx 4y ago
  The car is absolutely not preferable if you value using your time for anything else than staring at the road and concentrating on driving. Google Maps also suggests 6.5 hours by car compared to 4.5 hours by train between Munich and Berlin.

MandieD 4y ago

The financially-constrained people I know usually don’t use the IC/ICE - they take the extra hour or two to save 30+ EUR. Plus, making the IC/ICE all you can ride for 1/10th the current all-you-can-ride price would make getting to the airport or next big city for urgent business as dicey as going anywhere fun on the regional trains this summer was. As a German taxpayer, I’m absolutely fine with the 49 EUR ticket not covering the fast trains, but making in-region commuting cheaper and simpler. A Nürnberg-only ticket is something on the order of 60 EUR/mo with an annual contract or 80 if you can’t commit, so this is going to be at least 10 EUR/mo. back in the pockets of a lot of people it really matters to (tickets that cover suburbs like Erlangen are even more expensive).

throwaway4good 4y ago
I would be worried that the German public transit would be strained further; I remember crowded and massively delayed trains this summer. It semms like an odd policy to split public transport into a cheap, crowded and unreliable part while you have nice modern trains running half empty.
- dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
  > nice modern trains running half empty Anecdotally, reserving a ticket (with a seat) on IC/Es on the same day as you travel has been quite hard for me unless you splurge on 1st class or travel at unusual times. I do travel on quite a busy route however.