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I see the appeal of low/no code, but have yet to find a platform that I think does it well. The sell is that "business users" can write their own apps/sites/et

I see the appeal of low/no code, but have yet to find a platform that I think does it well. The sell is that "business users" can write their own apps/sites/etc. That ends up not materializing - business users don't want to or can't. So they get a dev to use the tool. So now, a dev is stuck using a tool that feels like death by a thousand clicks and locks the org into a subscription and ecosystem. I do feel like there is a solution here. On the dev side, what should be simple business apps written in code are too complex, and have too much cruft. Upgrading frameworks is a hassle. It should be easier. I feel like a popular really well done open source AI code generation tool could solve this and is waiting to be written.

okennedy 4y ago
Good low/no-code solutions do a great job of aiding discoverability and cutting the need to grapple with a language's syntax. Unfortunately, while this is a roadblock for many, the challenge is more fundamental. What makes a good programmer isn't knowledge of a language, it's the ability to translate a vague description of objectives into a precise specification of a solution (especially when the vague description is under-specified). This is one of the biggest challenges I see people struggling with as they learn programming: Cutting out the implicit assumptions that humans make every time they communicate with each other, and interactively working to understand *exactly* what needs to happen and why. Interactive AIs (e.g., Copilot, ChatGPT), in principle, could address the specification problem. Unfortunately, in their current state, they have no concept of what they don't know or understand. Gaps in the specification are filled in with assumptions, and one of the main criticisms of these tools at the moment is that they have no way to reason about how appropriate these assumptions are. It seems likely that we'll eventually reach a point where simple AIs can replace devs for the relatively simple tasks that low/no-code solutions target. However, for this to happen, (i) the AI would need the ability to reason about uncertainty/incompleteness in the prompt it's given, and (ii) the AI would need to be able to interactively work with the user to refine the specification.
- shireboy 4y ago
  Spot on. I tell people all the time my job is to translate from English into Nerd.
tstrimple 4y ago
I’ve had no issues with power automate and logic apps the few times I’ve had to use them. The last time I called voice to text and sentiment analysis APIs triggered on receiving an email with an audio attachment. It would reply to the email with the transcription and sentiment details. Was stupid easy and took about an hour to build and test and it just worked and has worked without any issues for the last three years. I have no idea how well most business users could work their way through something like that though.

okennedy 4y ago

Good low/no-code solutions do a great job of aiding discoverability and cutting the need to grapple with a language's syntax. Unfortunately, while this is a roadblock for many, the challenge is more fundamental. What makes a good programmer isn't knowledge of a language, it's the ability to translate a vague description of objectives into a precise specification of a solution (especially when the vague description is under-specified). This is one of the biggest challenges I see people struggling with as they learn programming: Cutting out the implicit assumptions that humans make every time they communicate with each other, and interactively working to understand *exactly* what needs to happen and why. Interactive AIs (e.g., Copilot, ChatGPT), in principle, could address the specification problem. Unfortunately, in their current state, they have no concept of what they don't know or understand. Gaps in the specification are filled in with assumptions, and one of the main criticisms of these tools at the moment is that they have no way to reason about how appropriate these assumptions are. It seems likely that we'll eventually reach a point where simple AIs can replace devs for the relatively simple tasks that low/no-code solutions target. However, for this to happen, (i) the AI would need the ability to reason about uncertainty/incompleteness in the prompt it's given, and (ii) the AI would need to be able to interactively work with the user to refine the specification.

shireboy 4y ago
Spot on. I tell people all the time my job is to translate from English into Nerd.

tstrimple 4y ago

I’ve had no issues with power automate and logic apps the few times I’ve had to use them. The last time I called voice to text and sentiment analysis APIs triggered on receiving an email with an audio attachment. It would reply to the email with the transcription and sentiment details. Was stupid easy and took about an hour to build and test and it just worked and has worked without any issues for the last three years. I have no idea how well most business users could work their way through something like that though.