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Something that is extremely common in the PHP community, and pretty much absent in any other programming community, is this knee-jerk aversion to the idea of le

Something that is extremely common in the PHP community, and pretty much absent in any other programming community, is this knee-jerk aversion to the idea of learning another language, and this sort of derision to those who do. Have you consider that people who learn other programming languages are not doing so in order to claim that they're better than PHP programmers, but for their own intrinsic reasons? It's such a weird, fragile ego situation. Does everyone else have to pretend that PHP is the only language that exists in order to placate your sense of inferiority?

zmxz 4y ago
Let's recap: post about PHP, ex-PHP user posts completely false info. Your reaction: "why do PHP devs get upset when ex-PHP users write false things about the language? Also, none of you know any other languages". Thanks for the ad-hominem, that concludes this discussion. Also, plenty of people who use PHP know so many other languages. You don't appear to be a professional in this industry, especially not with this kind of discourse. Take care.
- sdiacom 4y ago
  To be clear, I never said that PHP developers don't know any other languages, and I don't believe that is true. My comment was in response to you asking whether the other user (who as far as I can tell was not posting any false information about PHP, just pointing out that they personally preferred other languages?) wanted _recognition_, from you personally, for having learned some other language. This is such a weird reaction to have to the idea that someone has learned, and/or would rather use, some other language. I hope you can see that. Of course, it's not just you. I have never seen any programming language community that feels _threatened_ by the idea of other languages existing and being learned, in the way that the PHP community does. Fundamentally, this is a learned social behaviour, which means that whether or not individual PHP developers know other languages does not matter. A community that treats acquiring additional knowledge as a _threat_, seeing learning from the outside world as a _betrayal_, will not be able to learn _from_ other languages. As bringing new ideas and thoughts into the community is socially discouraged, it will only be possible for learning to flow in one direction: away from the PHP community.
  - zmxz 4y ago
    > who as far as I can tell was not posting any false information about PHP I asked what prompted the person to type that kind of reply. Had you read the entire topic, you'd see plenty of false info being posted, but my point remains: you used PHP, you moved on, what prompts you to be active in topic about PHP where all you contribute with is "I moved on." > This is such a weird reaction to have to the idea that someone has learned, and/or would rather use, some other language. I hope you can see that. And we're in territory of mental gymnastics now :) You think the reaction is to learning another language? You're obviously a programmer. Can you tell me how many possible outcomes exist and how come you chose this one in particular? Reaction was not to learning another language, it's ridiculous. > I have never seen any programming language community that feels _threatened_ You never read linux mailing list and c vs c++? I can't take you seriously, you talk as if there exists de-facto "community". There isn't one, it's just a bunch of people who use various forums and there's no coherent community. You interacted with several people and you label that community and then you purposely shove words that haven't been written only to challenge them. It's a straw man argument. You persist in labeling PHP devs so narrow-minded that they chase away people who learn other languages. I don't know which (human) language I need to use, but it's apparent that this is becoming multiplayer monologue. I write one thing, you claim I wrote something else and then you generalize based on it. Notice: I haven't tried to provide my "credentials" by listing what languages I know or what I do. I never even stated I'm a PHP dev. You, on the other hand, labeled me and entire PHP community as weak-ego, tribalists who frown upon other languages and that the PHP community, which apparently you researched somehow, is different to all other communities - which you also apparently researched. In this whole wall of text you wrote, you have't asked a single question. You merely stated something and then you proceeded to take up the higher moral ground and then demean people. Do you think such discourse is productive? > Fundamentally, this is a learned social behaviour, which means that whether or not individual PHP developers know other languages does not matter. A community that treats acquiring additional knowledge as a _threat_, seeing learning from the outside world as a _betrayal_, will not be able to learn _from_ other languages. In this very topic, I wrote about features I'd like to see in PHP - one being generics. Something I learned in C# and something that changed my entire stance to JS because of having used in TypeScript. That's just _one_ example of how you assume without zero facts to go by. I won't bother listing what we do for feature suggestions in PHP, which languages have great features and what we do to bring them in. You're just incapable of reading and you merely recognized me as a "bad guy" because I called someone out. I seriously doubt you'll read this, it would take more than 13 seconds of attention and that's something hard to acquire these days. TL;DR: nice gaslighting and straw man, thanks for ad-hominem, I wish you well in the new year :)
tored 4y ago
> extremely common in the PHP community? If I'm going to guess is that you have interacted with non-professional and/or beginner level PHP programmers, they could feel threatened becuase the only development skill they have is rudimentary PHP and you are asking them to replace that with something much more difficult. I have seen some of it myself, and it has always come down to lack of skill. And this makes sense why you have encountered this within the larger PHP community, becuase PHP is an easy to learn beginner friendly language that is used by the majority of blog and forum systems, zero setup web frameworks, and all of it can be set into production on almost every server on earth. Thus there are many low skilled PHP developers, probably more than moth other languages. And this is the lessons, it is important to understand that every community consist of large variety of disparate groups, especially within the PHP community, and it is up to you to learn to distinguish them. Unfortunately many are blind to this when it comes to the PHP community, outsiders may think the work I do professionally is the same as someone setting up blog for the first time, just because we use the same language. It would be same to think that the result of a first grader learning to write is the same thing as Tolkien's writings becuase both are in English.

zmxz 4y ago

Let's recap: post about PHP, ex-PHP user posts completely false info. Your reaction: "why do PHP devs get upset when ex-PHP users write false things about the language? Also, none of you know any other languages". Thanks for the ad-hominem, that concludes this discussion. Also, plenty of people who use PHP know so many other languages. You don't appear to be a professional in this industry, especially not with this kind of discourse. Take care.

sdiacom 4y ago
To be clear, I never said that PHP developers don't know any other languages, and I don't believe that is true. My comment was in response to you asking whether the other user (who as far as I can tell was not posting any false information about PHP, just pointing out that they personally preferred other languages?) wanted _recognition_, from you personally, for having learned some other language. This is such a weird reaction to have to the idea that someone has learned, and/or would rather use, some other language. I hope you can see that. Of course, it's not just you. I have never seen any programming language community that feels _threatened_ by the idea of other languages existing and being learned, in the way that the PHP community does. Fundamentally, this is a learned social behaviour, which means that whether or not individual PHP developers know other languages does not matter. A community that treats acquiring additional knowledge as a _threat_, seeing learning from the outside world as a _betrayal_, will not be able to learn _from_ other languages. As bringing new ideas and thoughts into the community is socially discouraged, it will only be possible for learning to flow in one direction: away from the PHP community.
- zmxz 4y ago
  > who as far as I can tell was not posting any false information about PHP I asked what prompted the person to type that kind of reply. Had you read the entire topic, you'd see plenty of false info being posted, but my point remains: you used PHP, you moved on, what prompts you to be active in topic about PHP where all you contribute with is "I moved on." > This is such a weird reaction to have to the idea that someone has learned, and/or would rather use, some other language. I hope you can see that. And we're in territory of mental gymnastics now :) You think the reaction is to learning another language? You're obviously a programmer. Can you tell me how many possible outcomes exist and how come you chose this one in particular? Reaction was not to learning another language, it's ridiculous. > I have never seen any programming language community that feels _threatened_ You never read linux mailing list and c vs c++? I can't take you seriously, you talk as if there exists de-facto "community". There isn't one, it's just a bunch of people who use various forums and there's no coherent community. You interacted with several people and you label that community and then you purposely shove words that haven't been written only to challenge them. It's a straw man argument. You persist in labeling PHP devs so narrow-minded that they chase away people who learn other languages. I don't know which (human) language I need to use, but it's apparent that this is becoming multiplayer monologue. I write one thing, you claim I wrote something else and then you generalize based on it. Notice: I haven't tried to provide my "credentials" by listing what languages I know or what I do. I never even stated I'm a PHP dev. You, on the other hand, labeled me and entire PHP community as weak-ego, tribalists who frown upon other languages and that the PHP community, which apparently you researched somehow, is different to all other communities - which you also apparently researched. In this whole wall of text you wrote, you have't asked a single question. You merely stated something and then you proceeded to take up the higher moral ground and then demean people. Do you think such discourse is productive? > Fundamentally, this is a learned social behaviour, which means that whether or not individual PHP developers know other languages does not matter. A community that treats acquiring additional knowledge as a _threat_, seeing learning from the outside world as a _betrayal_, will not be able to learn _from_ other languages. In this very topic, I wrote about features I'd like to see in PHP - one being generics. Something I learned in C# and something that changed my entire stance to JS because of having used in TypeScript. That's just _one_ example of how you assume without zero facts to go by. I won't bother listing what we do for feature suggestions in PHP, which languages have great features and what we do to bring them in. You're just incapable of reading and you merely recognized me as a "bad guy" because I called someone out. I seriously doubt you'll read this, it would take more than 13 seconds of attention and that's something hard to acquire these days. TL;DR: nice gaslighting and straw man, thanks for ad-hominem, I wish you well in the new year :)

tored 4y ago

> extremely common in the PHP community? If I'm going to guess is that you have interacted with non-professional and/or beginner level PHP programmers, they could feel threatened becuase the only development skill they have is rudimentary PHP and you are asking them to replace that with something much more difficult. I have seen some of it myself, and it has always come down to lack of skill. And this makes sense why you have encountered this within the larger PHP community, becuase PHP is an easy to learn beginner friendly language that is used by the majority of blog and forum systems, zero setup web frameworks, and all of it can be set into production on almost every server on earth. Thus there are many low skilled PHP developers, probably more than moth other languages. And this is the lessons, it is important to understand that every community consist of large variety of disparate groups, especially within the PHP community, and it is up to you to learn to distinguish them. Unfortunately many are blind to this when it comes to the PHP community, outsiders may think the work I do professionally is the same as someone setting up blog for the first time, just because we use the same language. It would be same to think that the result of a first grader learning to write is the same thing as Tolkien's writings becuase both are in English.