8 ms·

This is very interesting but I'm curious why the researchers chose to focus on pressurized commercial toilets as apposed to the non-pressurized, gravity-fed res

This is very interesting but I'm curious why the researchers chose to focus on pressurized commercial toilets as apposed to the non-pressurized, gravity-fed residential toilets that most of us[0] likely use far more frequently. [0] I admit, I might be showing my US based western bias here; I'm not sure.

sneak 4y ago
If you travel a lot in the US, you can go weeks without using a toilet with a lid. Many/most midrange business-focused hotels have commercial style lidless toilets, and save for custom Toto washlet boutique office setups demanded by Americans who have had the pleasure of spending time in asia, almost no commercial office or workspace in the US has lidded toilets.
- xattt 4y ago
  > If you travel a lot in the US, you can go weeks without using a toilet with a lid. “Achievement unlocked”
Tepix 4y ago
In fact it would be interested to compare all sorts of toilets under this aspect. Perhaps there is one that is superior. On the other hand it's interesting not just to see water particles flying through the room but perhaps also where they are coming from. If you design a toilet that sucks everything out first (without a splash) and the rapidly replenishes the water (in a splashy fashion), the percentage of pathogens might be much lower.
- ygra 4y ago
  Toilets on trains (at least in Germany) work that way. Presumably because it cuts down on the amount of water necessary to flush, but may have other benefits as well.
  - chasil 4y ago
    ...as do the facilities on commercial airplanes.
- eru 4y ago
  > In fact it would be interested to compare all sorts of toilets under this aspect. Perhaps there is one that is superior. You could also just close the lid before you flush?
  - b112 4y ago
    Lids must remain up always. For family peace, I removed the lid completely.
    - adlpz 4y ago
      What? How's using the lid a controversial thing at all?
      - sidlls 4y ago
        The commenter is likely snarking about living with a female (or females). Some can be, er, particular about the toilet lid. (Yes, the solution here is to put the lid back up when done, but then that ruins a bit of the GP's (I think) intended humor.)
        nsxwolf 4y ago
        You're thinking of the seat, not the lid. Although women are wrong about this. The standard should be a single seat manipulation per urinary event. That's the only fair way to do it. Why should the men manipulate the seat twice and women never?
        grahamplace 4y ago
        If your goal is to minimize pathogens transferred from seat to hand, you can think of the man's second seat manipulation as "zero cost" in the sense that their hand is already contaminated and they'll need to wash thoroughly Man 2x, Woman 0x = 1 "contamination" cost incurred Man 1x, Woman 1x = 2 "contamination" cost incurred
- simple10 4y ago
  In the US, commercial toilets like the one tested do not have lids. Probably for ease of maintenance and (most likely) a misguided notion that not having a lid is more hygienic and easier to clean. These are toilets found in office buildings, shopping centers, airports, etc. Anybody know if commercial toilets in UK and EU tend to have lids?
  - itronitron 4y ago
    Not sure about UK but EU at least tends to have fully enclosed stalls (no gaps above, below, or between the partitions) in public restrooms which should hopefully reduce aerosol spread.
  - FastEatSlow 4y ago
    In the UK we usually have lids, unless it's been vandalised.
  - jkepler 4y ago
    In France, I generally don't see lids on public toilets. In fact, its pretty common to see toilets without seats---vandalized or perhaps removed for maintenance, I'm not sure. (Maybe someone French has an idea why the seats are often missing/removed?)
    - metadat 4y ago
      It's actually cultural, lid and seat presence varies all over the world. Prepare to be amazed: Toilets of the World https://toilet-guru.com/ https://toilet-guru.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20505602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20505602 (2019; 266 points, 190 comments) For example, in some places this is normal and acceptable / desirable: https://toilet-guru.com/pictures/greece-kastraki-dscf1764.jpg https://toilet-guru.com/pictures/greece-kastraki-dscf1764.jp...
xtiansimon 4y ago
Commercial toilets are designed or engineered, but evidently not very well. And they never have a lid you can close to avoid the spray.
- eru 4y ago
  Oh, that's just American weirdness. Toilets in most of the rest of the world are saner. They also typically have a proper seat, instead of the U shape required by law in many places in the US.
  - thesuitonym 4y ago
    That's required by law? I thought it was just a cost saving measure (like everything else about US...Everything) What's the purpose?
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      It’s included by reference as part of the universal plumbing code. There isn’t a “toilet seat act of 1927” or something. The original intent was to make it easier for women to clean the perineal area without contacting a surface, and reduces genital contact with a surface. How do I know this? My wife was on a safety committee in a past job where there was a workplace injury claim related to this topic. In our case, there was an automated toilet cover dispenser, which made the round seat code compliant.
      - eru 4y ago
        > It’s included by reference as part of the universal plumbing code. There isn’t a “toilet seat act of 1927” or something. Yes. But that standard is being enforced by laws (and perhaps other legal mechanisms) in many places in the US. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Plumbing_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Plumbing_Code
    - rumblefrog 4y ago
      I believe it's mostly a matter of hygiene, less contact area for your genitals.
DonHopkins 4y ago
According to Slavoj Žižek, Germans love Hermeneutic stool diagnostics. >Žižek on toilets. Slavoj Žižek during an architecture congress in Pamplona, Spain. >The German toilets, the old kind -- now they are disappearing, but you still find them. It's the opposite. The hole is in front, so that when you produce excrement, they are displayed in the back, they don't disappear in water. This is the German ritual, you know? Use it every morning. Sniff, inspect your shits for traces of illness. It's high Hermeneutic. I think the original meaning of Hermeneutic may be this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics >Hermeneutics (/ˌhɜːrməˈnjuːtɪks/)[1] is the theory and methodology of interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts. Hermeneutics is more than interpretive principles or methods we resort to when immediate comprehension fails. Rather, hermeneutics is the art of understanding and of making oneself understood. >“In a traditional German toilet, the hole into which shit disappears after we flush is right at the front, so that shit is first laid out for us to sniff and inspect for traces of illness. In the typical French toilet, on the contrary, the hole is at the back, i.e. shit is supposed to disappear as quickly as possible. Finally, the American (Anglo-Saxon) toilet presents a synthesis, a mediation between these opposites: the toilet basin is full of water, so that the shit floats in it, visible, but not to be inspected. [...] It is clear that none of these versions can be accounted for in purely utilitarian terms: each involves a certain ideological perception of how the subject should relate to excrement. Hegel was among the first to see in the geographical triad of Germany, France and England an expression of three different existential attitudes: reflective thoroughness (German), revolutionary hastiness (French), utilitarian pragmatism (English). In political terms, this triad can be read as German conservatism, French revolutionary radicalism and English liberalism. [...] The point about toilets is that they enable us not only to discern this triad in the most intimate domain, but also to identify its underlying mechanism in the three different attitudes towards excremental excess: an ambiguous contemplative fascination; a wish to get rid of it as fast as possible; a pragmatic decision to treat it as ordinary and dispose of it in an appropriate way. It is easy for an academic at a round table to claim that we live in a post-ideological universe, but the moment he visits the lavatory after the heated discussion, he is again knee-deep in ideology.” -Slavoj Žižek
- postscapes1 4y ago
mitchdoogle 4y ago
The people you share your home toilet with are bound to spread any pathogens they're carrying to you in multiple way. You are likely touching the same things, eating the same things, touching them, kissing them, etc. A public toilet may be used by hundreds of people each day and is the single common point of contact and thus carries more potential for spread of pathogen
- b112 4y ago
  But the pathogens your genetically close relatives carry, are ones they did not shrug off, and are probably better suited to stick around you too. (Just a thought, loads of holes in it, but it may be true in some edge cases.)
  - bluGill 4y ago
    You probably share enough other contact with such people that you will get what they have anyway.
whycome 4y ago
I mean those commercial toilets are what you'll find in a lot of office environments, schools, stores, etc etc. And it's the time when you're likely present in a room for someone else's flush. And, you also have no idea of who's using it. In a household, one will probably have an okay sense if someone else is sick (eg flu).

sneak 4y ago

If you travel a lot in the US, you can go weeks without using a toilet with a lid. Many/most midrange business-focused hotels have commercial style lidless toilets, and save for custom Toto washlet boutique office setups demanded by Americans who have had the pleasure of spending time in asia, almost no commercial office or workspace in the US has lidded toilets.

xattt 4y ago
> If you travel a lot in the US, you can go weeks without using a toilet with a lid. “Achievement unlocked”

Tepix 4y ago

In fact it would be interested to compare all sorts of toilets under this aspect. Perhaps there is one that is superior. On the other hand it's interesting not just to see water particles flying through the room but perhaps also where they are coming from. If you design a toilet that sucks everything out first (without a splash) and the rapidly replenishes the water (in a splashy fashion), the percentage of pathogens might be much lower.

ygra 4y ago
Toilets on trains (at least in Germany) work that way. Presumably because it cuts down on the amount of water necessary to flush, but may have other benefits as well.
- chasil 4y ago
  ...as do the facilities on commercial airplanes.
eru 4y ago
> In fact it would be interested to compare all sorts of toilets under this aspect. Perhaps there is one that is superior. You could also just close the lid before you flush?
- b112 4y ago
  Lids must remain up always. For family peace, I removed the lid completely.
  - adlpz 4y ago
    What? How's using the lid a controversial thing at all?
    - sidlls 4y ago
      The commenter is likely snarking about living with a female (or females). Some can be, er, particular about the toilet lid. (Yes, the solution here is to put the lid back up when done, but then that ruins a bit of the GP's (I think) intended humor.)
      - nsxwolf 4y ago
        You're thinking of the seat, not the lid. Although women are wrong about this. The standard should be a single seat manipulation per urinary event. That's the only fair way to do it. Why should the men manipulate the seat twice and women never?
        grahamplace 4y ago
        If your goal is to minimize pathogens transferred from seat to hand, you can think of the man's second seat manipulation as "zero cost" in the sense that their hand is already contaminated and they'll need to wash thoroughly Man 2x, Woman 0x = 1 "contamination" cost incurred Man 1x, Woman 1x = 2 "contamination" cost incurred
simple10 4y ago
In the US, commercial toilets like the one tested do not have lids. Probably for ease of maintenance and (most likely) a misguided notion that not having a lid is more hygienic and easier to clean. These are toilets found in office buildings, shopping centers, airports, etc. Anybody know if commercial toilets in UK and EU tend to have lids?
- itronitron 4y ago
  Not sure about UK but EU at least tends to have fully enclosed stalls (no gaps above, below, or between the partitions) in public restrooms which should hopefully reduce aerosol spread.
- FastEatSlow 4y ago
  In the UK we usually have lids, unless it's been vandalised.
- jkepler 4y ago
  In France, I generally don't see lids on public toilets. In fact, its pretty common to see toilets without seats---vandalized or perhaps removed for maintenance, I'm not sure. (Maybe someone French has an idea why the seats are often missing/removed?)
  - metadat 4y ago
    It's actually cultural, lid and seat presence varies all over the world. Prepare to be amazed: Toilets of the World https://toilet-guru.com/ https://toilet-guru.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20505602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20505602 (2019; 266 points, 190 comments) For example, in some places this is normal and acceptable / desirable: https://toilet-guru.com/pictures/greece-kastraki-dscf1764.jpg https://toilet-guru.com/pictures/greece-kastraki-dscf1764.jp...

xtiansimon 4y ago

Commercial toilets are designed or engineered, but evidently not very well. And they never have a lid you can close to avoid the spray.

eru 4y ago
Oh, that's just American weirdness. Toilets in most of the rest of the world are saner. They also typically have a proper seat, instead of the U shape required by law in many places in the US.
- thesuitonym 4y ago
  That's required by law? I thought it was just a cost saving measure (like everything else about US...Everything) What's the purpose?
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    It’s included by reference as part of the universal plumbing code. There isn’t a “toilet seat act of 1927” or something. The original intent was to make it easier for women to clean the perineal area without contacting a surface, and reduces genital contact with a surface. How do I know this? My wife was on a safety committee in a past job where there was a workplace injury claim related to this topic. In our case, there was an automated toilet cover dispenser, which made the round seat code compliant.
    - eru 4y ago
      > It’s included by reference as part of the universal plumbing code. There isn’t a “toilet seat act of 1927” or something. Yes. But that standard is being enforced by laws (and perhaps other legal mechanisms) in many places in the US. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Plumbing_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Plumbing_Code
  - rumblefrog 4y ago
    I believe it's mostly a matter of hygiene, less contact area for your genitals.

DonHopkins 4y ago

According to Slavoj Žižek, Germans love Hermeneutic stool diagnostics. >Žižek on toilets. Slavoj Žižek during an architecture congress in Pamplona, Spain. >The German toilets, the old kind -- now they are disappearing, but you still find them. It's the opposite. The hole is in front, so that when you produce excrement, they are displayed in the back, they don't disappear in water. This is the German ritual, you know? Use it every morning. Sniff, inspect your shits for traces of illness. It's high Hermeneutic. I think the original meaning of Hermeneutic may be this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics >Hermeneutics (/ˌhɜːrməˈnjuːtɪks/)[1] is the theory and methodology of interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts. Hermeneutics is more than interpretive principles or methods we resort to when immediate comprehension fails. Rather, hermeneutics is the art of understanding and of making oneself understood. >“In a traditional German toilet, the hole into which shit disappears after we flush is right at the front, so that shit is first laid out for us to sniff and inspect for traces of illness. In the typical French toilet, on the contrary, the hole is at the back, i.e. shit is supposed to disappear as quickly as possible. Finally, the American (Anglo-Saxon) toilet presents a synthesis, a mediation between these opposites: the toilet basin is full of water, so that the shit floats in it, visible, but not to be inspected. [...] It is clear that none of these versions can be accounted for in purely utilitarian terms: each involves a certain ideological perception of how the subject should relate to excrement. Hegel was among the first to see in the geographical triad of Germany, France and England an expression of three different existential attitudes: reflective thoroughness (German), revolutionary hastiness (French), utilitarian pragmatism (English). In political terms, this triad can be read as German conservatism, French revolutionary radicalism and English liberalism. [...] The point about toilets is that they enable us not only to discern this triad in the most intimate domain, but also to identify its underlying mechanism in the three different attitudes towards excremental excess: an ambiguous contemplative fascination; a wish to get rid of it as fast as possible; a pragmatic decision to treat it as ordinary and dispose of it in an appropriate way. It is easy for an academic at a round table to claim that we live in a post-ideological universe, but the moment he visits the lavatory after the heated discussion, he is again knee-deep in ideology.” -Slavoj Žižek

postscapes1 4y ago

mitchdoogle 4y ago

The people you share your home toilet with are bound to spread any pathogens they're carrying to you in multiple way. You are likely touching the same things, eating the same things, touching them, kissing them, etc. A public toilet may be used by hundreds of people each day and is the single common point of contact and thus carries more potential for spread of pathogen

b112 4y ago
But the pathogens your genetically close relatives carry, are ones they did not shrug off, and are probably better suited to stick around you too. (Just a thought, loads of holes in it, but it may be true in some edge cases.)
- bluGill 4y ago
  You probably share enough other contact with such people that you will get what they have anyway.

whycome 4y ago

I mean those commercial toilets are what you'll find in a lot of office environments, schools, stores, etc etc. And it's the time when you're likely present in a room for someone else's flush. And, you also have no idea of who's using it. In a household, one will probably have an okay sense if someone else is sick (eg flu).