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Is AlmaLinux systemd-free?

by Mikhail_K 4y ago

Dracophoenix 4y ago
It's a RHEL clone, so no. However, you can install runit or OpenRC if you want.
- Mikhail_K 4y ago
  That doesn't solve the problem, because systemd developers have insinuated dependencies on it into multiple unrelated system components.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    Linux developers have created dependencies on Linux. Portability is a lot of work and perfect portability does not exist. If you think you don't want systemd, why don't you use BSD?
    - dijit 4y ago
      > Linux developers have created dependencies on Linux. Sorry, ignoring the rest of the thread: this statement isn't true even marginally. There are linux distributions that can operate on other kernels than Linux. Debian was my favourite choice for this with their HURD (https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/) and kFreeBSD (https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/) implementation. The GNU userland itself does not depend on Linux either. You can run GNU utilities on MacOS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD.
      - flumpcakes 4y ago
        > There are linux distributions that can operate on other kernels than Linux. Then by definition they're not specifically a Linux distribution?
        dijit 4y ago
        Richard Stallman agrees with you. I’m happy to take a different name, but Wikipedia at least refers to it this way. Debian themselves say that they’re an operating system. Regardless; many (if not most, if not close to all) utilities developed on top of Linux are portable across not only distributions, but other kernels or even operating systems. It’s not fair to say that “those people who develop on systems with Linux kernels only support linux”.
    - karteum 4y ago
      There are cases where you might want to use Linux (for the hardware support, or for the userland) but without systemd: e.g. if you want to use musl libc, Lennard has said clearly he won't fix the incompatibility https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org/msg23523.html https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop... "we will rely on good APIs exposed in the generally accepted Linux API which is the one glibc exposes" (i.e. he won't integrate any required patch to make systemd work without glibc's nonstandard behaviors, and musl doesn't aim for a bug-for-bug compatibility with glibc).
      - rahen 4y ago
        Lennard now works for Microsoft anyway. It clearly suits him better.
    - Koshkin 4y ago
      Because systemd is not the reason why people choose to use Linux over a BSD.
  - flumpcakes 4y ago
    What is the problem with systemd?
    - rahen 4y ago
      Do your homework. This has caused enough wars, hatred, threats, splits and forks already over the years.
      - flumpcakes 4y ago
        > Do your homework. You assume I don't know what systemd is or why people have complained? This is frankly a rude comment to make and shows yourself in a very poor light. I thought it was pretty common knowledge in 2022 that systemd is fine. It's the default in the vast majority of Linux distros. The vast majority of people have gotten over the drama of change. I was asking for a specific reason why someone was complaining about it now. I expected the reason to be new. Complaining alone doesn't add much to the discussion. You're dismissive comment also doesn't add anything to the discussion.
        Mikhail_K 4y ago
        > I thought it was pretty common knowledge in 2022 that systemd is fine. You thought wrongly. > The vast majority of people have gotten over the drama of change. Implying the only reason to object to systemd is "the drama of change".
        flumpcakes 4y ago
        > You thought wrongly. In 2022 the majority of Linux distros are using systemd: Arch, Debian, RHEL, OpenSUSE... including derivatives like CentOS/AlmaLinux/Ubuntu/Manjaro. Sounds to me like the common knowledge is that systemd is fine. > Implying the only reason to object to systemd is "the drama of change". There's nothing in your reply that says otherwise.
        Mikhail_K 4y ago
  - ykonstant 4y ago
    That is interesting; can you point to specifics? I am generally a proponent of orthogonality in my system components, although I am not opposed to the core structure of systemd.
rahen 4y ago
You're asking if Redhat, the creator and main proponent of systemd, uses it in its distribution. Use FreeBSD, Devuan or Alpine if you want production-grade Unixes without systemd.
- Mikhail_K 4y ago
  > You're asking if Redhat, the creator and main proponent of systemd, > uses it in its distribution. I thought the main promoter of systemd these days is Microsoft?

Is AlmaLinux systemd-free?

Dracophoenix 4y ago

It's a RHEL clone, so no. However, you can install runit or OpenRC if you want.

Mikhail_K 4y ago
That doesn't solve the problem, because systemd developers have insinuated dependencies on it into multiple unrelated system components.
- usr1106 4y ago
  Linux developers have created dependencies on Linux. Portability is a lot of work and perfect portability does not exist. If you think you don't want systemd, why don't you use BSD?
  - dijit 4y ago
    > Linux developers have created dependencies on Linux. Sorry, ignoring the rest of the thread: this statement isn't true even marginally. There are linux distributions that can operate on other kernels than Linux. Debian was my favourite choice for this with their HURD (https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/) and kFreeBSD (https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/) implementation. The GNU userland itself does not depend on Linux either. You can run GNU utilities on MacOS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD.
    - flumpcakes 4y ago
      > There are linux distributions that can operate on other kernels than Linux. Then by definition they're not specifically a Linux distribution?
      - dijit 4y ago
        Richard Stallman agrees with you. I’m happy to take a different name, but Wikipedia at least refers to it this way. Debian themselves say that they’re an operating system. Regardless; many (if not most, if not close to all) utilities developed on top of Linux are portable across not only distributions, but other kernels or even operating systems. It’s not fair to say that “those people who develop on systems with Linux kernels only support linux”.
  - karteum 4y ago
    There are cases where you might want to use Linux (for the hardware support, or for the userland) but without systemd: e.g. if you want to use musl libc, Lennard has said clearly he won't fix the incompatibility https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org/msg23523.html https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop... "we will rely on good APIs exposed in the generally accepted Linux API which is the one glibc exposes" (i.e. he won't integrate any required patch to make systemd work without glibc's nonstandard behaviors, and musl doesn't aim for a bug-for-bug compatibility with glibc).
    - rahen 4y ago
      Lennard now works for Microsoft anyway. It clearly suits him better.
  - Koshkin 4y ago
    Because systemd is not the reason why people choose to use Linux over a BSD.
- flumpcakes 4y ago
  What is the problem with systemd?
  - rahen 4y ago
    Do your homework. This has caused enough wars, hatred, threats, splits and forks already over the years.
    - flumpcakes 4y ago
      > Do your homework. You assume I don't know what systemd is or why people have complained? This is frankly a rude comment to make and shows yourself in a very poor light. I thought it was pretty common knowledge in 2022 that systemd is fine. It's the default in the vast majority of Linux distros. The vast majority of people have gotten over the drama of change. I was asking for a specific reason why someone was complaining about it now. I expected the reason to be new. Complaining alone doesn't add much to the discussion. You're dismissive comment also doesn't add anything to the discussion.
      - Mikhail_K 4y ago
        > I thought it was pretty common knowledge in 2022 that systemd is fine. You thought wrongly. > The vast majority of people have gotten over the drama of change. Implying the only reason to object to systemd is "the drama of change".
        flumpcakes 4y ago
        > You thought wrongly. In 2022 the majority of Linux distros are using systemd: Arch, Debian, RHEL, OpenSUSE... including derivatives like CentOS/AlmaLinux/Ubuntu/Manjaro. Sounds to me like the common knowledge is that systemd is fine. > Implying the only reason to object to systemd is "the drama of change". There's nothing in your reply that says otherwise.
        Mikhail_K 4y ago
- ykonstant 4y ago
  That is interesting; can you point to specifics? I am generally a proponent of orthogonality in my system components, although I am not opposed to the core structure of systemd.

rahen 4y ago

You're asking if Redhat, the creator and main proponent of systemd, uses it in its distribution. Use FreeBSD, Devuan or Alpine if you want production-grade Unixes without systemd.

Mikhail_K 4y ago
> You're asking if Redhat, the creator and main proponent of systemd, > uses it in its distribution. I thought the main promoter of systemd these days is Microsoft?