5 ms·

Men are dropping out of the labor force, upset about their social status

19 points by msolujic 4y ago

1letterunixname 4y ago
- _8j50 4y ago
  Yeah, "it is ______ group's fault I refuse to apply for a job"
  - coldtea 4y ago
    It often is. Groups are not just a number of isolated people each doing their thing, they have group dynamics, and they influence society at large. Like how men (a group) could put off women from applying for a STEM job back in the day. That doesn't mean the group is black people of course. But it could very well be the way the 1% class group is running things, or how the top 10% shapes culture and society's direction sucking to them...
    - _8j50 4y ago
      Bullshit. Women apply and get into male dominated hostile jobs despite men. You don't want money that's on you. You can only work in a place filled with men that look like you? Tough shit, immigrate to europe and do your nazi shit there. Welcome to america, where people from literally every other nation immigrate, live and have built busienesses and careers. Take that segregation bullshit elsewhere. Leave your politics at home, liberal or conservative and earn an honest living and treat people fairly or leave.
- 10u152 4y ago
  Why do Americans always have to boil everything down to race, or being racist? Social problems transcend the colour of your skin.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- newfriend 4y ago
  The unemployment rate for young, black men is much higher [0] than that of young, white men. Combined with the crime rate of young, black men being so much higher [1] than that of young, white men, and it seems strange to be more worried about "white nationalists". [0] https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpsee_e16.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpsee_e16.htm [1] https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2020&rdoGroups=2&rdoData=r https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selY...
  - sdwr 4y ago
    It's not that strange with a little perspective. For whatever reason (death of the middle class, changing demographics, being outcompeted) a lot of white people are doing worse than their parents did. There'a a generation of people who feel entitled to a lifestyle they can't practically support. Sure, black people might have it worse in real terms on average, but this is a new problem, suffered by people who are close enough to positions of power to raise a stink about it.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    White nationalism has played itself in the past few years. Several shootings or terror incidents were from them in the USA. Like the car driver who drove into a protest, the guys who shot up gay clubs, the January 6 United States Capitol attack... In other countries too, they're on watchlists. Germany just arrested over 20 far right militants who wanted to overthrow the government. In France, a group lead by Rémy Daillet-Wiedemann planned that too. But they were stopped when they kidnapped a little girl, military-style, to save her from the government. And when you read comments under the news, nationalists are all over I am more worried about these crazy persons than 'migrants', who don't integrate because they don't eat local food.
_8j50 4y ago
How do they eat? Also, it's not just IT where you can get paid well in the US without a degree. My experience so far tells me that people can do ok without a job so they put up with a lot of crap and get complacent. In other words, everyone wants money but people that are picky about easy, well paying and honest jobs don't want money bad enough.
withinboredom 4y ago
This is total anec-data, but I remember a friend telling me about it while they were doing a study. They didn’t report it in the study, just a pattern they noticed while interviewing people: Middle class men generally tell their male children to find a job that makes them happy and pays the bills. Women aren’t given this advice but generally will do whatever it takes to pay the bills. Anecdotally, I’ve asked a few dozen men, women how they would choose a job (just out of curiosity) and I’ve not seen this pattern, so take it with a grain of salt…. BUT, if it is true, it might explain things…
hinata08 4y ago
I don't get the stigma explained in the article, about men with lower education degrees. I've come to associate engineers and boring persons. Except IT security graduates who are full of themselves, and more irritating than boring. How can a society look up at educated person ?! Most of them are just good at math and so boring ! (I began to do non-IT engineering, tried IT security, and then swerved into devops / automation to work with developers, who are often nicer) Also, you're not always better paid when you're educated. You're better paid before all charges. But if you need to live in a large city far away, your rent will increase. You will also have to pay to go back to your hometown and see friends and relatives. Your large city will be soulless, instead of your charming hometown, so you'll have to pay to escape and travel around. And lastly, you'll be sad and single after devoting yourself to uni, and having your soul crushed by it. In the meantime, all your friends will be in a couple, make a family, and their rent will be shared with their husband / wife. Being educated just makes you sad and single :/ The best position would be to work as a car or bike mechanics or something like that, IMO And don't care about social status. People with a higher social status are just devoted to it, they're not happier.
- ProllyInfamous 4y ago
  >Being educated just makes you sad and single :/ "Is it better to have been born: 1) Normal into an Intelligent society -or- 2) Intelligent in an Insane society?" [I want to attribute this quote to A.Huxley..?] I'm personally leaning towards the former. If they let me back into the Matrix, never, I want among averages.
kweingar 4y ago
I sympathize with people who are crushed by economic forces. It’s hard to evaluate this kind of article, though, where much of the focus is “a certain section of the population is discouraged that life doesn’t meet their expectations” without really explaining what their expectations are. The internet has shown me that many people have distorted expectations for their lives, and they were bound to be disappointed.
than3 4y ago
This looks like subversive propaganda. If it were a valid study, it would have done a multivariate analysis because anyone can see there are multiple variables that would impact these types of decisions. This is no better than a poll which can be swayed by confirmation bias or anyone with a creative flair in numbers. Its flawed on multiple levels, and attempting to drive a false narrative. Just flag it and move on, this shouldn't be on HN.

19 points by msolujic 4y ago

_8j50 4y ago
Yeah, "it is ______ group's fault I refuse to apply for a job"
- coldtea 4y ago
  It often is. Groups are not just a number of isolated people each doing their thing, they have group dynamics, and they influence society at large. Like how men (a group) could put off women from applying for a STEM job back in the day. That doesn't mean the group is black people of course. But it could very well be the way the 1% class group is running things, or how the top 10% shapes culture and society's direction sucking to them...
  - _8j50 4y ago
    Bullshit. Women apply and get into male dominated hostile jobs despite men. You don't want money that's on you. You can only work in a place filled with men that look like you? Tough shit, immigrate to europe and do your nazi shit there. Welcome to america, where people from literally every other nation immigrate, live and have built busienesses and careers. Take that segregation bullshit elsewhere. Leave your politics at home, liberal or conservative and earn an honest living and treat people fairly or leave.
10u152 4y ago
Why do Americans always have to boil everything down to race, or being racist? Social problems transcend the colour of your skin.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
newfriend 4y ago
The unemployment rate for young, black men is much higher [0] than that of young, white men. Combined with the crime rate of young, black men being so much higher [1] than that of young, white men, and it seems strange to be more worried about "white nationalists". [0] https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpsee_e16.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpsee_e16.htm [1] https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2020&rdoGroups=2&rdoData=r https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selY...
- sdwr 4y ago
  It's not that strange with a little perspective. For whatever reason (death of the middle class, changing demographics, being outcompeted) a lot of white people are doing worse than their parents did. There'a a generation of people who feel entitled to a lifestyle they can't practically support. Sure, black people might have it worse in real terms on average, but this is a new problem, suffered by people who are close enough to positions of power to raise a stink about it.
- hinata08 4y ago
  White nationalism has played itself in the past few years. Several shootings or terror incidents were from them in the USA. Like the car driver who drove into a protest, the guys who shot up gay clubs, the January 6 United States Capitol attack... In other countries too, they're on watchlists. Germany just arrested over 20 far right militants who wanted to overthrow the government. In France, a group lead by Rémy Daillet-Wiedemann planned that too. But they were stopped when they kidnapped a little girl, military-style, to save her from the government. And when you read comments under the news, nationalists are all over I am more worried about these crazy persons than 'migrants', who don't integrate because they don't eat local food.

How do they eat? Also, it's not just IT where you can get paid well in the US without a degree. My experience so far tells me that people can do ok without a job so they put up with a lot of crap and get complacent. In other words, everyone wants money but people that are picky about easy, well paying and honest jobs don't want money bad enough.

withinboredom 4y ago

This is total anec-data, but I remember a friend telling me about it while they were doing a study. They didn’t report it in the study, just a pattern they noticed while interviewing people: Middle class men generally tell their male children to find a job that makes them happy and pays the bills. Women aren’t given this advice but generally will do whatever it takes to pay the bills. Anecdotally, I’ve asked a few dozen men, women how they would choose a job (just out of curiosity) and I’ve not seen this pattern, so take it with a grain of salt…. BUT, if it is true, it might explain things…

hinata08 4y ago

I don't get the stigma explained in the article, about men with lower education degrees. I've come to associate engineers and boring persons. Except IT security graduates who are full of themselves, and more irritating than boring. How can a society look up at educated person ?! Most of them are just good at math and so boring ! (I began to do non-IT engineering, tried IT security, and then swerved into devops / automation to work with developers, who are often nicer) Also, you're not always better paid when you're educated. You're better paid before all charges. But if you need to live in a large city far away, your rent will increase. You will also have to pay to go back to your hometown and see friends and relatives. Your large city will be soulless, instead of your charming hometown, so you'll have to pay to escape and travel around. And lastly, you'll be sad and single after devoting yourself to uni, and having your soul crushed by it. In the meantime, all your friends will be in a couple, make a family, and their rent will be shared with their husband / wife. Being educated just makes you sad and single :/ The best position would be to work as a car or bike mechanics or something like that, IMO And don't care about social status. People with a higher social status are just devoted to it, they're not happier.

ProllyInfamous 4y ago
>Being educated just makes you sad and single :/ "Is it better to have been born: 1) Normal into an Intelligent society -or- 2) Intelligent in an Insane society?" [I want to attribute this quote to A.Huxley..?] I'm personally leaning towards the former. If they let me back into the Matrix, never, I want among averages.

kweingar 4y ago

I sympathize with people who are crushed by economic forces. It’s hard to evaluate this kind of article, though, where much of the focus is “a certain section of the population is discouraged that life doesn’t meet their expectations” without really explaining what their expectations are. The internet has shown me that many people have distorted expectations for their lives, and they were bound to be disappointed.

than3 4y ago

This looks like subversive propaganda. If it were a valid study, it would have done a multivariate analysis because anyone can see there are multiple variables that would impact these types of decisions. This is no better than a poll which can be swayed by confirmation bias or anyone with a creative flair in numbers. Its flawed on multiple levels, and attempting to drive a false narrative. Just flag it and move on, this shouldn't be on HN.