16 ms·

Good, almost there and we will finally eliminate modern day slavery. Because paying someone $1 a day at the other side of the world is no different than giving

Good, almost there and we will finally eliminate modern day slavery. Because paying someone $1 a day at the other side of the world is no different than giving them only food for the days work.

coffeebeqn 4y ago
How much were they making before and for what work? How much will they be making and for what work after?
twblalock 4y ago
They take those jobs because their other options are worse. It is a way out of poverty for many. No poor country is going to get rich without passing through a phase of low-wage semi-poverty (unless they find a ton of oil under their ground).
- noduerme 4y ago
  >> unless they find a ton of oil under their ground And even then... https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691159638/the-oil-curse https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691159638/th... [edit] better link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse#Enclave_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse#Enclave_effects
- eddiewithzato 4y ago
  Those jobs are only causing more inequality by propping up a wealthy slave owner class in their country. Only winners are the CEOs who do sell this service to the west. Without them that country can happily live within their means.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    Look at what happened in China over the past several decades, after the Chinese government embraced international trade and market economics. The average person there is much better off now. Hundreds of millions of people who had been trapped in subsistence poverty for many generations have been lifted into a much higher standard of living. It's such a drastic change in standard of living that it's indisputable.
goatlover 4y ago
Do you hate the global poor? Globalization has raised hundreds of millions out of poverty.
- kccoder 4y ago
  I'm sure OP's point is that they should be paying them more for their labor, something corporations can certainly afford. Corporations don't pay more because their only objective is increasing profit, and I'm sure they'd happily pay them nothing at all if they were allowed to do so.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    They don't pay more because the entire point of opening the factory in a poor country is access to cheap labor.
- Grazester 4y ago
  Forced "globalization" (by the World Bank and IMF) has also kept people impoverished.
  - nequo 4y ago
    It is hard to see how China would have had the economic growth that it had over the past 40 years without globalization. Illustrative example: the population of Shenzhen increased nearly 42-fold from 314 thousand to 13.4 million between 1979 and 2019.[1] The opportunity to produce for export has pulled many millions out of poverty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Shenzhen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Shenzhen
    - lm28469 4y ago
      Maybe just maybe raising people "out of poverty" also mechanically translates to increase in population We had the same thing in Europe during the industrial revolution, advances in agriculture = more food = people aren't hard limited by resources = people have more kids, people having small scale farms started working 12 hours shift in coal mines and textile factories, very often increasing their working time by a factor of 2 to 3 while not living in better conditions despite having more money in their pockets The millions that were "pulled out of poverty" in Shenzhen wouldn't have needed to be pulled out of anything since they wouldn't have existed. What happened is that we pulled people out of "old style living" and forced them into factories, I'll let them decide if this was a net positive or not.
noduerme 4y ago
China's GDP per capita has gone from $317 in 1990 to $12,556 last year (current USD)[1]. There are still many underpaid workers, in some places virtual slavery, and horrendous human rights abuses... but if you look at China in the 80s when there were no cars, no refrigerators, no sanitation, no indoor plumbing, let alone modern apartments or bullet trains, you can't say they haven't been banking some serious quality-of-life improvements. 1. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=CN https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?location...
- xedrac 4y ago
  They've come a long way, but having super dense pollution puts quite a damper on those other quality of life improvements.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >but if you look at China in the 80s when there were no cars No cars is an improvement. Cars have huge social costs, causing lots of deaths and pollution. China would be better off without them, at least in the cities.
refurb 4y ago
This attitude pops up a lot “if the solution isn’t perfect we shouldn’t do it at all” which completely ignores incremental gains. It’s like dismissing a cancer treatment that extends life 10%. Just toss it out the window because it’s not good enough? That’s not how things work at all.
- eddiewithzato 4y ago
  Don’t know what you mean. The jobs should never leave the consuming country. The greed caused them to seek cheaper labor outside.
  - refurb 4y ago
    That ignores specialization. You think Kenya can produce their own iPhones?
verdenti 4y ago

Good, almost there and we will finally eliminate modern day slavery. Because paying someone $1 a day at the other side of the world is no different than giving them only food for the days work.

coffeebeqn 4y ago

How much were they making before and for what work? How much will they be making and for what work after?

twblalock 4y ago

They take those jobs because their other options are worse. It is a way out of poverty for many. No poor country is going to get rich without passing through a phase of low-wage semi-poverty (unless they find a ton of oil under their ground).

noduerme 4y ago
>> unless they find a ton of oil under their ground And even then... https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691159638/the-oil-curse https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691159638/th... [edit] better link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse#Enclave_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse#Enclave_effects
eddiewithzato 4y ago
Those jobs are only causing more inequality by propping up a wealthy slave owner class in their country. Only winners are the CEOs who do sell this service to the west. Without them that country can happily live within their means.
- twblalock 4y ago
  Look at what happened in China over the past several decades, after the Chinese government embraced international trade and market economics. The average person there is much better off now. Hundreds of millions of people who had been trapped in subsistence poverty for many generations have been lifted into a much higher standard of living. It's such a drastic change in standard of living that it's indisputable.

goatlover 4y ago

Do you hate the global poor? Globalization has raised hundreds of millions out of poverty.

kccoder 4y ago
I'm sure OP's point is that they should be paying them more for their labor, something corporations can certainly afford. Corporations don't pay more because their only objective is increasing profit, and I'm sure they'd happily pay them nothing at all if they were allowed to do so.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  They don't pay more because the entire point of opening the factory in a poor country is access to cheap labor.
Grazester 4y ago
Forced "globalization" (by the World Bank and IMF) has also kept people impoverished.
- nequo 4y ago
  It is hard to see how China would have had the economic growth that it had over the past 40 years without globalization. Illustrative example: the population of Shenzhen increased nearly 42-fold from 314 thousand to 13.4 million between 1979 and 2019.[1] The opportunity to produce for export has pulled many millions out of poverty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Shenzhen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Shenzhen
  - lm28469 4y ago
    Maybe just maybe raising people "out of poverty" also mechanically translates to increase in population We had the same thing in Europe during the industrial revolution, advances in agriculture = more food = people aren't hard limited by resources = people have more kids, people having small scale farms started working 12 hours shift in coal mines and textile factories, very often increasing their working time by a factor of 2 to 3 while not living in better conditions despite having more money in their pockets The millions that were "pulled out of poverty" in Shenzhen wouldn't have needed to be pulled out of anything since they wouldn't have existed. What happened is that we pulled people out of "old style living" and forced them into factories, I'll let them decide if this was a net positive or not.

noduerme 4y ago

China's GDP per capita has gone from $317 in 1990 to $12,556 last year (current USD)[1]. There are still many underpaid workers, in some places virtual slavery, and horrendous human rights abuses... but if you look at China in the 80s when there were no cars, no refrigerators, no sanitation, no indoor plumbing, let alone modern apartments or bullet trains, you can't say they haven't been banking some serious quality-of-life improvements. 1. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=CN https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?location...

xedrac 4y ago
They've come a long way, but having super dense pollution puts quite a damper on those other quality of life improvements.
midoridensha 4y ago
>but if you look at China in the 80s when there were no cars No cars is an improvement. Cars have huge social costs, causing lots of deaths and pollution. China would be better off without them, at least in the cities.

refurb 4y ago

This attitude pops up a lot “if the solution isn’t perfect we shouldn’t do it at all” which completely ignores incremental gains. It’s like dismissing a cancer treatment that extends life 10%. Just toss it out the window because it’s not good enough? That’s not how things work at all.

eddiewithzato 4y ago
Don’t know what you mean. The jobs should never leave the consuming country. The greed caused them to seek cheaper labor outside.
- refurb 4y ago
  That ignores specialization. You think Kenya can produce their own iPhones?

verdenti 4y ago