6 ms·

Both almost certainly surrendered their passports at initial arrest. The time to have fled was before that point.

Alupis 4y ago
I think it would be safe to assume people in this high-flying financial orbit would have access to the sorts of people that could get them out of the country without a passport.
- notch656a 4y ago
  I've never had CBP check my passport when walking into Mexico. And Mexican officials are always asleep or absent when I pass through their side. No matter, all they require to enter Mexico is a US Birth Certificate (but they don't ask) lol. People leaving by private boat or plane are basically on a trust system; how the hell would they know if you're flying to Hawaii or not if headed to the Pacific, or whether you're going somewhere foreign or to Puerto Rico or the USVI if you're sailing into the Caribbean? I'm pretty sure there's thousands a day that walk into Mexico everyday without a passport. Hell half the people in line returning to the US claim they "forgot" theirs. Leaving is easy without a passport. And don't forgot if Sunny can get to the shores of Pakistan, he is a citizen and they must let him in, after which he can easily hide in the tribal areas. All he would need is a yacht somewhere on the multi-thousands of miles on the coastline and some friendly boats in int'l waters to refuel him.
  - miohtama 4y ago
    Pakistan does not have an extraction treaty with the US, so there is no need to hide there.
    - ydlr 4y ago
      Yet, Pakistan routinely cooperates with US when it suits them. Lack of extraction treaty is no guarantee of safety.
    - creaghpatr 4y ago
      Didn't work out so well for Osama Bin Laden.
    - throwaway49374 4y ago
      Sunny Bulwani is from India not Pakistan
      - selimthegrim 4y ago
        He was born to Pakistani Hindu family.
  - metadat 4y ago
    Mexico has extradition agreements with the US. However it could ostensibly be a decent starting place to get fake documents and head off to begin a new life.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    The thousands walking across the boarder don't have the problems someone like Sunny has though, including LEO's out looking for them, facial recognition systems, flagged bank accounts and credit cards, etc. Someone like Sunny can't realistically just drive to and walk across the border.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      You may be right. I don't have anywhere near Sunny's problems but I do have a flagged passport after I fought in the militia YPG in Syria (legal, but I seem to have been put on a list which has caused me endless issues with CBP). Alarm bells ring to the Nth degree when I enter, but as far as I can tell they don't have much mechanism to investigate pedestrians leaving. I'm guessing if they do have something it only focuses on some exceptional cases (like perhaps Sunny).
      - Alupis 4y ago
        You are not currently wanted by the government - and only run into trouble after presenting a passport. This is not how a fugitive on the run would exit (or enter) a country. There is a lot more to the DHS apparatus than simply scanning passports. Most of it is unseen by the public.
        notch656a 4y ago
        I am fascinated to learn more about the apparatus that checks pedestrians leaving the US. I understand there is doubtlessly unseen stuff going on there. Do you have any materials or primary sources I can look at to understand what you're talking about? It has been my experience when crossing after scanning my passport the officer goes from jovial to shocked/unexpected (I don't look like or act someone who would have a flagged passport) which leads me to believe there is at least in many cases no advanced warning to them a flagged individual is approaching. Now I know the government must surely have these systems but I think it may be doubtful how effective they've set it up to be to stop people leaving the country if by foot. The flow of people leaving the border in general is just way lower scrutiny, in my experience living in a border state. I would be shocked if the average say non-violent felon fugitive has much trouble leaving if they're not on a flight manifest.
  - eddsh1994 4y ago
    > how the hell would they know if you're flying to Hawaii or not if headed to the Pacific Fwiw, you have scheduled flight plans and if a pilot did this deliberately they'd be reprimanded hard. You also have to land international flights in designated airports that have immigration. This wouldn't be easy to do if you're both wanted and bankrupt!
  - throwaway49374 4y ago
    Bulwani is from India not Pakistan
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      He was Pakistani Hindu.
- vkou 4y ago
  Just because you've ripped off Larry Ellison and Henry Kissinger doesn't quite grant you these kinds of globe-trotting powers. I suppose you could always try to pay a coyote, but, uh, that's a bit of a high-risk play. Or you could drive into Mexico, but without actually having fuck-you money and connections (These two don't), you're not likely going to stay outside of the arms of law enforcement for very long. And if all this works out, and you end up on the run, you now have to full-sever every connection you have to anyone you know. Not a lot of fun. Manning up and just doing the 11 or 13 years in Club Fed seems pretty attractive, compared to all that.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    I think we're underestimating just how many very skilled folks are willing to lend a great deal of discretion for the right price. Just look at the recent Carlos Ghosn[1] situation. Former USASF operators working as Private Security Contractors smuggled him out of the country. The plot involved what appears to be close to a dozen people too, and included falsifying passenger records on multiple international flights and more. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn
    - willhslade 4y ago
      Yeah, but doesn't Ghosn still, uh, have money? Theranos was a massive fraud.
      - Alupis 4y ago
        Theranos was a massive fraud, but there was plenty of real money going around. Sunny allegedly still has access to millions, for instance. It would not be surprising if these sorts of folks squirrelled away vast sums for a "rainy day" in places that make it difficult for governments to get. Seems pretty standard operating procedure for people who are legit - not just fraudsters.
    - johnwalkr 4y ago
      Ghosn, a Lebanese/French citizen, used American mercenaries to help him abscond from Japan for Lebanon, with at least an narrative (rightly or wrongly) that he wasn't allowed due process in Japan. It's probably 2 orders of magnitude harder, in the long-term, to arrange for a high-profile American fugitive to use American mercenaries to abscond to another country.
skinnymuch 4y ago
How much worse is it to flee now vs before? It’s not clear if Sunny is still 8 figure wealthy or not but it appears he is for now.
selimthegrim 4y ago
Balwani wasn’t going to go back to Pakistan and they wouldn’t have taken him even if he tried.

I think it would be safe to assume people in this high-flying financial orbit would have access to the sorts of people that could get them out of the country without a passport.

notch656a 4y ago
I've never had CBP check my passport when walking into Mexico. And Mexican officials are always asleep or absent when I pass through their side. No matter, all they require to enter Mexico is a US Birth Certificate (but they don't ask) lol. People leaving by private boat or plane are basically on a trust system; how the hell would they know if you're flying to Hawaii or not if headed to the Pacific, or whether you're going somewhere foreign or to Puerto Rico or the USVI if you're sailing into the Caribbean? I'm pretty sure there's thousands a day that walk into Mexico everyday without a passport. Hell half the people in line returning to the US claim they "forgot" theirs. Leaving is easy without a passport. And don't forgot if Sunny can get to the shores of Pakistan, he is a citizen and they must let him in, after which he can easily hide in the tribal areas. All he would need is a yacht somewhere on the multi-thousands of miles on the coastline and some friendly boats in int'l waters to refuel him.
- miohtama 4y ago
  Pakistan does not have an extraction treaty with the US, so there is no need to hide there.
  - ydlr 4y ago
    Yet, Pakistan routinely cooperates with US when it suits them. Lack of extraction treaty is no guarantee of safety.
  - creaghpatr 4y ago
    Didn't work out so well for Osama Bin Laden.
  - throwaway49374 4y ago
    Sunny Bulwani is from India not Pakistan
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      He was born to Pakistani Hindu family.
- metadat 4y ago
  Mexico has extradition agreements with the US. However it could ostensibly be a decent starting place to get fake documents and head off to begin a new life.
- Alupis 4y ago
  The thousands walking across the boarder don't have the problems someone like Sunny has though, including LEO's out looking for them, facial recognition systems, flagged bank accounts and credit cards, etc. Someone like Sunny can't realistically just drive to and walk across the border.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    You may be right. I don't have anywhere near Sunny's problems but I do have a flagged passport after I fought in the militia YPG in Syria (legal, but I seem to have been put on a list which has caused me endless issues with CBP). Alarm bells ring to the Nth degree when I enter, but as far as I can tell they don't have much mechanism to investigate pedestrians leaving. I'm guessing if they do have something it only focuses on some exceptional cases (like perhaps Sunny).
    - Alupis 4y ago
      You are not currently wanted by the government - and only run into trouble after presenting a passport. This is not how a fugitive on the run would exit (or enter) a country. There is a lot more to the DHS apparatus than simply scanning passports. Most of it is unseen by the public.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        I am fascinated to learn more about the apparatus that checks pedestrians leaving the US. I understand there is doubtlessly unseen stuff going on there. Do you have any materials or primary sources I can look at to understand what you're talking about? It has been my experience when crossing after scanning my passport the officer goes from jovial to shocked/unexpected (I don't look like or act someone who would have a flagged passport) which leads me to believe there is at least in many cases no advanced warning to them a flagged individual is approaching. Now I know the government must surely have these systems but I think it may be doubtful how effective they've set it up to be to stop people leaving the country if by foot. The flow of people leaving the border in general is just way lower scrutiny, in my experience living in a border state. I would be shocked if the average say non-violent felon fugitive has much trouble leaving if they're not on a flight manifest.
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  > how the hell would they know if you're flying to Hawaii or not if headed to the Pacific Fwiw, you have scheduled flight plans and if a pilot did this deliberately they'd be reprimanded hard. You also have to land international flights in designated airports that have immigration. This wouldn't be easy to do if you're both wanted and bankrupt!
- throwaway49374 4y ago
  Bulwani is from India not Pakistan
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    He was Pakistani Hindu.
vkou 4y ago
Just because you've ripped off Larry Ellison and Henry Kissinger doesn't quite grant you these kinds of globe-trotting powers. I suppose you could always try to pay a coyote, but, uh, that's a bit of a high-risk play. Or you could drive into Mexico, but without actually having fuck-you money and connections (These two don't), you're not likely going to stay outside of the arms of law enforcement for very long. And if all this works out, and you end up on the run, you now have to full-sever every connection you have to anyone you know. Not a lot of fun. Manning up and just doing the 11 or 13 years in Club Fed seems pretty attractive, compared to all that.
- Alupis 4y ago
  I think we're underestimating just how many very skilled folks are willing to lend a great deal of discretion for the right price. Just look at the recent Carlos Ghosn[1] situation. Former USASF operators working as Private Security Contractors smuggled him out of the country. The plot involved what appears to be close to a dozen people too, and included falsifying passenger records on multiple international flights and more. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn
  - willhslade 4y ago
    Yeah, but doesn't Ghosn still, uh, have money? Theranos was a massive fraud.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      Theranos was a massive fraud, but there was plenty of real money going around. Sunny allegedly still has access to millions, for instance. It would not be surprising if these sorts of folks squirrelled away vast sums for a "rainy day" in places that make it difficult for governments to get. Seems pretty standard operating procedure for people who are legit - not just fraudsters.
  - johnwalkr 4y ago
    Ghosn, a Lebanese/French citizen, used American mercenaries to help him abscond from Japan for Lebanon, with at least an narrative (rightly or wrongly) that he wasn't allowed due process in Japan. It's probably 2 orders of magnitude harder, in the long-term, to arrange for a high-profile American fugitive to use American mercenaries to abscond to another country.

skinnymuch 4y ago

How much worse is it to flee now vs before? It’s not clear if Sunny is still 8 figure wealthy or not but it appears he is for now.

selimthegrim 4y ago

Balwani wasn’t going to go back to Pakistan and they wouldn’t have taken him even if he tried.