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Well, you certainly can use it with just an text editor. However, due to the maturity of the language and platform, the IDE support of Java is pretty much unsur

Well, you certainly can use it with just an text editor. However, due to the maturity of the language and platform, the IDE support of Java is pretty much unsurpassed and you would certainly be quite a bit more productive if you used an IDE like IDEA or Eclipse. In terms of complexity, it really depends on what you want to do. Using a powerful framework like Spring can entail some config (albeit much less than it used to). Also you would typically use a build tool like maven or gradle to manage dependencies, build artifacts, etc.. Especially maven can be a little arcane. But another major upside of the aforementioned maturity is that there are reams of docs and stackoverflow answers which will almost certainly contain solutions for any problems you might encounter.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
> reams of docs and stackoverflow answers which will almost certainly contain solutions This is both a blessing and a curse. Some answers and docs are decades old and although still work, are not “fashionable java” (think streams, for instance).
- code_runner 4y ago
  I’m new to Java so I just want to confirm… are you saying streams are or are not fashionable? Is there a better api out there?
  - yCombLinks 4y ago
    No, there are pre-streams answers, but streams are now fashionable.
    - erik_seaberg 4y ago
      And streams are part of the reason checked exceptions are now unfashionable. Java doesn’t infer that a generic function arg should affect the caller’s exception signature.
      - code_runner 4y ago
        Checked exceptions are the bane of my existence
- silisili 4y ago
  This is why I gave up on Java years ago. There seemed to be a lot of cruft left in the language and libraries that you were just supposed to know to not use anymore. I guess for backwards compatibility, but as a learner it's rather frustrating. Has that gotten better recently? It's been years since I've toyed with it.
  - tadfisher 4y ago
    A lot of cruft has been split into modules, so you no longer have AWT/Swing/smartcardio/etc. in your classpath unless you want it. A lot of cruft is still there; Date, File, InputStream/OutputStream, sun.misc.Unsafe, and the entire legacy reflection API are the bunch that stick out to me. Newer releases are actively mentioning their legacy status in documentation, and there are certainly JEPs to remove them or make them opt-in/opt-out. If you look at OpenJDK internals, or even the foreign function/memory APIs as described in the article, it looks almost nothing like the Java I learned on and wrote for several years. Most of the Panama API is piggybacking on additions to the language made post-JDK9 or so, such as MethodHandle, VarHandle and @PolymorphicSignature methods. So I'd say the language and runtime is evolving nicely, even under the thumb of Oracle.
    - ahtihn 4y ago
      > InputStream/OutputStream I think I missed the announcement of those being "legacy" APIs? They show up all over the place including in libraries, what is the replacement?
      - tadfisher 4y ago
        The modern versions of these are Channel APIs in java.nio. The "N" in nio stands for "New" even though it was introduced in Java 1.4.
        kaba0 4y ago
        But the old ones aren’t superseded the same way Date is, though. You are perfectly fine using them and in fact will perform similarly well due to Loom (which has actually reimplemented them on top of async APIs)
- plandis 4y ago
  What’s not fashionable about streams in Java? I’ve seen many modern open source Java projects using them.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Parent might mean it in the negative, that those answers won’t use streams.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  I occasionally have to touch Java though I'm far more at home in e.g. Python. If you don't mind, a consist mention off the top of your head of things that people in my position should know about, as we Google our Java issues. I'm not cutting and pasting Stack Overflow answers, but even so they often do form the basis of ideas of the code that I write in the end. So pitfalls and modern replacements for ancient practices would be appreciated. Thank you!

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago

> reams of docs and stackoverflow answers which will almost certainly contain solutions This is both a blessing and a curse. Some answers and docs are decades old and although still work, are not “fashionable java” (think streams, for instance).

code_runner 4y ago
I’m new to Java so I just want to confirm… are you saying streams are or are not fashionable? Is there a better api out there?
- yCombLinks 4y ago
  No, there are pre-streams answers, but streams are now fashionable.
  - erik_seaberg 4y ago
    And streams are part of the reason checked exceptions are now unfashionable. Java doesn’t infer that a generic function arg should affect the caller’s exception signature.
    - code_runner 4y ago
      Checked exceptions are the bane of my existence
silisili 4y ago
This is why I gave up on Java years ago. There seemed to be a lot of cruft left in the language and libraries that you were just supposed to know to not use anymore. I guess for backwards compatibility, but as a learner it's rather frustrating. Has that gotten better recently? It's been years since I've toyed with it.
- tadfisher 4y ago
  A lot of cruft has been split into modules, so you no longer have AWT/Swing/smartcardio/etc. in your classpath unless you want it. A lot of cruft is still there; Date, File, InputStream/OutputStream, sun.misc.Unsafe, and the entire legacy reflection API are the bunch that stick out to me. Newer releases are actively mentioning their legacy status in documentation, and there are certainly JEPs to remove them or make them opt-in/opt-out. If you look at OpenJDK internals, or even the foreign function/memory APIs as described in the article, it looks almost nothing like the Java I learned on and wrote for several years. Most of the Panama API is piggybacking on additions to the language made post-JDK9 or so, such as MethodHandle, VarHandle and @PolymorphicSignature methods. So I'd say the language and runtime is evolving nicely, even under the thumb of Oracle.
  - ahtihn 4y ago
    > InputStream/OutputStream I think I missed the announcement of those being "legacy" APIs? They show up all over the place including in libraries, what is the replacement?
    - tadfisher 4y ago
      The modern versions of these are Channel APIs in java.nio. The "N" in nio stands for "New" even though it was introduced in Java 1.4.
      - kaba0 4y ago
        But the old ones aren’t superseded the same way Date is, though. You are perfectly fine using them and in fact will perform similarly well due to Loom (which has actually reimplemented them on top of async APIs)
plandis 4y ago
What’s not fashionable about streams in Java? I’ve seen many modern open source Java projects using them.
- kaba0 4y ago
  Parent might mean it in the negative, that those answers won’t use streams.
dotancohen 4y ago
I occasionally have to touch Java though I'm far more at home in e.g. Python. If you don't mind, a consist mention off the top of your head of things that people in my position should know about, as we Google our Java issues. I'm not cutting and pasting Stack Overflow answers, but even so they often do form the basis of ideas of the code that I write in the end. So pitfalls and modern replacements for ancient practices would be appreciated. Thank you!