3 ms·

Forgive me for being glib, but if the candidate jumps off because they don't want to answer a very quick, simple, efficient question, that they should fully kno

by anyfoo 4y ago

Forgive me for being glib, but if the candidate jumps off because they don't want to answer a very quick, simple, efficient question, that they should fully know is because it is beneficial to filter out complete duds, I'm not sure I want to continue with them anyway? I wouldn't even know how that happened in an in-person or video interview, or even phone screen. "I'm sorry, I do not want to answer your simple upfront question, because it is beneath me"? Well, good luck to your future endeavors then. To be clear, as I explained in my first post, my filter questions are not FizzBuzz, they are much more domain specific. At least if it's past the phone screen stage and for more than an internship. But they are still identifiable as trivial filter question for any serious applicant.

leros 4y ago
It's not necessarily that it's beneath them, but more that they have so many options available to them. Imagine you have 10 companies that you are willing to consider: - 5 of them are willing to immediately bring you into a serious interview - 5 of them want you to take a coding test or some other pre-interview step Why would you bother with those last 5 companies? Just go for the companies that respect your resume enough to bring you in for a real interview. Those latter 5 companies will lose out on a lot great candidates due to their filters. I can tell you having worked on tech hiring at scale and having AB tested a lot of these things across many companies, you lose a lot of grade-A candidates with anything beyond bringing them in to interview. The thing about hiring though is that no single company really notices their own inefficiencies. Everyone has their own filters and their own method of incorrectly rejecting great candidates. However, they ultimately hire people so they feel their process works. They don't really know if they could be hiring better people or hiring people faster.
- anyfoo 4y ago
  > - 5 of them want you to take a coding test or some other pre-interview step I don't see the assumption anywhere that the filter question is a separate step from anyone else here. Even if you mean a phone screen, then the easy filter question is only one of the very first questions of that phone screen, the rest will be more substantive. So let's continue with the filter question not being a dedicated extra step (really, I don't think anybody assumed so): > Why would you bother with those last 5 companies? Just go for the companies that respect your resume enough to bring you in for a real interview. Because presumably I want to work at any of these companies. If the thing that's stopping me from applying to them is answering a trivial question, either my desire was not strong at all to begin with, or there is something seriously wrong with me. Even if this is about the phone screen and not a filter question per se, I'm still not sure I really like the idea of omitting phone screens for more senior positions because you might lose on "better" candidates. For such a senior engineer, a phone screen should basically be a formality, and actually a chance for themselves to dip their toe in. Not just in seeing what kind of technical areas they come up with, but also an opportunity to ask preliminary questions about the company and the position in general. If that is off-putting enough to not consider applying or stop the process, then, again, the desire to work there could either have not been that strong, or the other reason.
  - leros 4y ago
    > So let's continue with the filter question not being a dedicated extra step I can't agree with that. I don't see point of a filter question if its not a separate step before the full interview. If you're going to bring someone in for a proper interview, go ahead and give them a full interview session. It's weird to put a filter a question into a full day's worth of interviewing. And I can say, having seen hiring practices across tons of companies, filter questions are almost always a separate step where candidates have a tendency to fall out of the hiring pipeline. > Even if this is about the phone screen and not a filter question per se, I'm still not sure I really like the idea of omitting phone screens for more senior positions because you might lose on "better" candidates. Phone screens are fine because they're usually more about culture fit and trying to figure out if the candidate and company are right for each other. Experienced candidates that get asked basic technical questions on a phone screen have a tendency to report a negative experience and not have a desire to move forward with the company.
    - anyfoo 4y ago
      > It's weird to put a filter a question into a full day's worth of interviewing. Some candidates won't get the full day, to prevent wasting a lot of time. It's true that I haven't seen an individual interview being cut ultra-short after a failed filter question, but it definitely informs whether the next interviews will happen. > Experienced candidates that get asked basic technical questions on a phone screen have a tendency to report a negative experience and not have a desire to move forward with the company. Sorry, but, thanks for coming, and good luck in your future endeavors. As an experienced candidate, if I could not stomach that, politely and with a strong desire to move on swiftly on the other side as well, I am asked a simple technical question for the apparent reason that the interviewer cannot divine if I am actually able to program (unlike so many examples in this comment section alone), I'm not sure why I would really be considered a "grade-A" candidate.
    - soueuls 4y ago
      I have definitely quit hiring process where I have been asked about FizzBuzz. It’s outdated, useless, shows a lack of imagination. I don’t want to work with people asking me whether I can perform a loop with a basic conditions. And it’s a hill I am willing to die on. I am financially independent, mostly here for the intellectual challenge. And I have never met anyone asking me about FizzBuzz having then the capacity to entertain me intellectually.

by anyfoo 4y ago

leros 4y ago

It's not necessarily that it's beneath them, but more that they have so many options available to them. Imagine you have 10 companies that you are willing to consider: - 5 of them are willing to immediately bring you into a serious interview - 5 of them want you to take a coding test or some other pre-interview step Why would you bother with those last 5 companies? Just go for the companies that respect your resume enough to bring you in for a real interview. Those latter 5 companies will lose out on a lot great candidates due to their filters. I can tell you having worked on tech hiring at scale and having AB tested a lot of these things across many companies, you lose a lot of grade-A candidates with anything beyond bringing them in to interview. The thing about hiring though is that no single company really notices their own inefficiencies. Everyone has their own filters and their own method of incorrectly rejecting great candidates. However, they ultimately hire people so they feel their process works. They don't really know if they could be hiring better people or hiring people faster.

anyfoo 4y ago
> - 5 of them want you to take a coding test or some other pre-interview step I don't see the assumption anywhere that the filter question is a separate step from anyone else here. Even if you mean a phone screen, then the easy filter question is only one of the very first questions of that phone screen, the rest will be more substantive. So let's continue with the filter question not being a dedicated extra step (really, I don't think anybody assumed so): > Why would you bother with those last 5 companies? Just go for the companies that respect your resume enough to bring you in for a real interview. Because presumably I want to work at any of these companies. If the thing that's stopping me from applying to them is answering a trivial question, either my desire was not strong at all to begin with, or there is something seriously wrong with me. Even if this is about the phone screen and not a filter question per se, I'm still not sure I really like the idea of omitting phone screens for more senior positions because you might lose on "better" candidates. For such a senior engineer, a phone screen should basically be a formality, and actually a chance for themselves to dip their toe in. Not just in seeing what kind of technical areas they come up with, but also an opportunity to ask preliminary questions about the company and the position in general. If that is off-putting enough to not consider applying or stop the process, then, again, the desire to work there could either have not been that strong, or the other reason.
- leros 4y ago
  > So let's continue with the filter question not being a dedicated extra step I can't agree with that. I don't see point of a filter question if its not a separate step before the full interview. If you're going to bring someone in for a proper interview, go ahead and give them a full interview session. It's weird to put a filter a question into a full day's worth of interviewing. And I can say, having seen hiring practices across tons of companies, filter questions are almost always a separate step where candidates have a tendency to fall out of the hiring pipeline. > Even if this is about the phone screen and not a filter question per se, I'm still not sure I really like the idea of omitting phone screens for more senior positions because you might lose on "better" candidates. Phone screens are fine because they're usually more about culture fit and trying to figure out if the candidate and company are right for each other. Experienced candidates that get asked basic technical questions on a phone screen have a tendency to report a negative experience and not have a desire to move forward with the company.
  - anyfoo 4y ago
    > It's weird to put a filter a question into a full day's worth of interviewing. Some candidates won't get the full day, to prevent wasting a lot of time. It's true that I haven't seen an individual interview being cut ultra-short after a failed filter question, but it definitely informs whether the next interviews will happen. > Experienced candidates that get asked basic technical questions on a phone screen have a tendency to report a negative experience and not have a desire to move forward with the company. Sorry, but, thanks for coming, and good luck in your future endeavors. As an experienced candidate, if I could not stomach that, politely and with a strong desire to move on swiftly on the other side as well, I am asked a simple technical question for the apparent reason that the interviewer cannot divine if I am actually able to program (unlike so many examples in this comment section alone), I'm not sure why I would really be considered a "grade-A" candidate.
  - soueuls 4y ago
    I have definitely quit hiring process where I have been asked about FizzBuzz. It’s outdated, useless, shows a lack of imagination. I don’t want to work with people asking me whether I can perform a loop with a basic conditions. And it’s a hill I am willing to die on. I am financially independent, mostly here for the intellectual challenge. And I have never met anyone asking me about FizzBuzz having then the capacity to entertain me intellectually.