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If I don’t like what Apple does with iMessage, I can move to WhatsApp. If I don’t like what Apple does with photos, I can move to Google Photos. If I don’t like

If I don’t like what Apple does with iMessage, I can move to WhatsApp. If I don’t like what Apple does with photos, I can move to Google Photos. If I don’t like what Apple does with iCloud, I can move to Dropbox. If I don’t like what Apple does with iOS, I can move to Android. What am I missing? How am I handcuffed to Apple?

vbezhenar 4y ago
What will you do when Apple would delete Whatsapp from AppStore?
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  > If I don’t like what Apple does with iOS, I can move to Android.
smoldesu 4y ago
And if you don't like Safari? Gotta sell the whole phone, sorry bud.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  Why would someone not like Safari? There is a Chrome app on iOS. I don't think many people pick their browser based on rendering engine, but rather on actual browser UI and features (like sync).
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Guess it's a shame I'm one of those people then, all infatuated with silly things like 'options' and 'choice'.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  I use Firefox just fine on iOS. Sure, it's just user chrome and Firefox Sync, but those are the things I care a lot more about than the rendering engine. I'd love to support Gecko on mobile too, as I've moved the vast majority of my desktop usage to it, but Webkit is still fighting the Blink/Chromium hegemony, too, and that's still fighting the good fight.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > and that's still fighting the good fight Not if they treat user freedom as their enemy.
    - WorldMaker 4y ago
      I appreciate that you feel that way. I think most users don't care about the details of rendering engines and think user chrome choice (not Google's Chrome specifically; it's stupid Chrome confused pre-existing browser language) is enough. I mostly agree, as I already stated, and I'm okay with the compromise on rendering engine for security and I'm okay with the compromise on rendering engine to keep at least one non-Blink renderer high enough on caniuse usage statistics that I can fight back some in corporate projects that "Chrome is the only browser we need to support" because we have enough iOS using users and many of them are executives. That's a more important fight to me than "user rendering engine freedom". I don't personally need IE6 2.0 "Chrome is the only supported browser for the next few decades" (whether or not you think Google would declare victory in the same way that Microsoft did and stop innovating on Chrome entirely that very minute that happens), and I don't think the web as a whole needs that either. So I'm with Apple right now on their compromise choices. I don't expect you to agree with me. I just want you to know it is a perspective of its own merits. The web has seen what happens when one rendering engine gets enough market share to dominate and that had a decade or more of repercussions, especially in enterprise application development. We're so dangerously close to that happening again. You may think you are fighting the most for freedom of the two of us, but from my perspective you are fighting a proxy battle in the Cold War and I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run.
      - orangecat 4y ago
        In the future Chrome might achieve a monopoly, therefore we should give Apple a monopoly on Safari today? If we're doing Cold War metaphors, this sounds like "we had to destroy the village in order to save it". I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run. I will have to disagree that freedom is advanced by an OS that forbids you from using software that hasn't been approved by a megacorporation.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  Yes, exactly, I can switch phones. Doesn’t seem like handcuffs to me.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pixl97 4y ago
    You seem to miss that you're switching the golden handcuffs for rusty uncomfortable handcuffs with the spikes facing inward. "It's a free market because I have the choice between two brutal masters!"
    - snowwrestler 4y ago
      I guess we're all wearing the handcuffs of not getting exactly what we want.
  - brokenmachine 4y ago
    There can be no free or fair market here. The barrier to entry for new companies to enter the phone market is just unbelievably high with all the patents. Modern human communication, phones, are too important to be held hostage by just two companies, neither of which are acting in consumers best interests. IMO this is the time that governments should be acting on behalf of the people, and not the corporations with the deepest pockets.
makeitdouble 4y ago
> If I don’t like what Apple does with photos, I can move to Google Photos I can’t. I don’t use Apple Photos, and I can’t set Google Photos as the default photo handler, nor default source or destination, nor tell any iOS device to never save photos in Apple’s silo. > If I don’t like what Apple does with iCloud, I can move to Dropbox. I can’t either. I wanted to backup my phone elsewhere and there is no option outside of iCloud. How have you hacked your system and how long will you be able to?
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  To use Google Photos on iPhone: install the Google Photos app and grant it access to your phone's photos. Then you can go into the Google Photos app to see and manage all your photos. To keep Apple from saving your photos: turn off iCloud Photos, or log out of iCloud. To back up your iPhone without iCloud: make a local backup on your Mac or PC. You can even encrypt the backup with a password you choose. You can sync these backup files in any way you would like, including via Dropbox. You can also sell your iPhone and get a different phone if you don't want anything to do with Apple.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    You're skirting around the issues, as Apple just won't allow you to get out of their system in the key parts. Any of the alternative you describe are just clunky workarounds with utterly broken parts (local backups through a Mac have severe issues compared to cloud backups) > You can also sell your iPhone and get a different phone if you don't want anything to do with Apple. If you come to that conclusion, it's basically the answer to your "How am I handcuffed to Apple?" question. If you need to give up the system to properly manage your backups, it's pretty much a situation where you're handcuffed or not, with no clear negotiable middle ground option.

vbezhenar 4y ago

What will you do when Apple would delete Whatsapp from AppStore?

snowwrestler 4y ago
> If I don’t like what Apple does with iOS, I can move to Android.

smoldesu 4y ago

And if you don't like Safari? Gotta sell the whole phone, sorry bud.

madeofpalk 4y ago
Why would someone not like Safari? There is a Chrome app on iOS. I don't think many people pick their browser based on rendering engine, but rather on actual browser UI and features (like sync).
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Guess it's a shame I'm one of those people then, all infatuated with silly things like 'options' and 'choice'.
WorldMaker 4y ago
I use Firefox just fine on iOS. Sure, it's just user chrome and Firefox Sync, but those are the things I care a lot more about than the rendering engine. I'd love to support Gecko on mobile too, as I've moved the vast majority of my desktop usage to it, but Webkit is still fighting the Blink/Chromium hegemony, too, and that's still fighting the good fight.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > and that's still fighting the good fight Not if they treat user freedom as their enemy.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    I appreciate that you feel that way. I think most users don't care about the details of rendering engines and think user chrome choice (not Google's Chrome specifically; it's stupid Chrome confused pre-existing browser language) is enough. I mostly agree, as I already stated, and I'm okay with the compromise on rendering engine for security and I'm okay with the compromise on rendering engine to keep at least one non-Blink renderer high enough on caniuse usage statistics that I can fight back some in corporate projects that "Chrome is the only browser we need to support" because we have enough iOS using users and many of them are executives. That's a more important fight to me than "user rendering engine freedom". I don't personally need IE6 2.0 "Chrome is the only supported browser for the next few decades" (whether or not you think Google would declare victory in the same way that Microsoft did and stop innovating on Chrome entirely that very minute that happens), and I don't think the web as a whole needs that either. So I'm with Apple right now on their compromise choices. I don't expect you to agree with me. I just want you to know it is a perspective of its own merits. The web has seen what happens when one rendering engine gets enough market share to dominate and that had a decade or more of repercussions, especially in enterprise application development. We're so dangerously close to that happening again. You may think you are fighting the most for freedom of the two of us, but from my perspective you are fighting a proxy battle in the Cold War and I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run.
    - orangecat 4y ago
      In the future Chrome might achieve a monopoly, therefore we should give Apple a monopoly on Safari today? If we're doing Cold War metaphors, this sounds like "we had to destroy the village in order to save it". I'm much more worried about the Cold War and the freedoms it may lose us in the long run. I will have to disagree that freedom is advanced by an OS that forbids you from using software that hasn't been approved by a megacorporation.
snowwrestler 4y ago
Yes, exactly, I can switch phones. Doesn’t seem like handcuffs to me.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pixl97 4y ago
  You seem to miss that you're switching the golden handcuffs for rusty uncomfortable handcuffs with the spikes facing inward. "It's a free market because I have the choice between two brutal masters!"
  - snowwrestler 4y ago
    I guess we're all wearing the handcuffs of not getting exactly what we want.
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  There can be no free or fair market here. The barrier to entry for new companies to enter the phone market is just unbelievably high with all the patents. Modern human communication, phones, are too important to be held hostage by just two companies, neither of which are acting in consumers best interests. IMO this is the time that governments should be acting on behalf of the people, and not the corporations with the deepest pockets.

makeitdouble 4y ago

> If I don’t like what Apple does with photos, I can move to Google Photos I can’t. I don’t use Apple Photos, and I can’t set Google Photos as the default photo handler, nor default source or destination, nor tell any iOS device to never save photos in Apple’s silo. > If I don’t like what Apple does with iCloud, I can move to Dropbox. I can’t either. I wanted to backup my phone elsewhere and there is no option outside of iCloud. How have you hacked your system and how long will you be able to?

snowwrestler 4y ago
To use Google Photos on iPhone: install the Google Photos app and grant it access to your phone's photos. Then you can go into the Google Photos app to see and manage all your photos. To keep Apple from saving your photos: turn off iCloud Photos, or log out of iCloud. To back up your iPhone without iCloud: make a local backup on your Mac or PC. You can even encrypt the backup with a password you choose. You can sync these backup files in any way you would like, including via Dropbox. You can also sell your iPhone and get a different phone if you don't want anything to do with Apple.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  You're skirting around the issues, as Apple just won't allow you to get out of their system in the key parts. Any of the alternative you describe are just clunky workarounds with utterly broken parts (local backups through a Mac have severe issues compared to cloud backups) > You can also sell your iPhone and get a different phone if you don't want anything to do with Apple. If you come to that conclusion, it's basically the answer to your "How am I handcuffed to Apple?" question. If you need to give up the system to properly manage your backups, it's pretty much a situation where you're handcuffed or not, with no clear negotiable middle ground option.