5 ms·

That's exactly the antitrust issue Microsoft ran into isn't it?

by enjo 4y ago

bink 4y ago
Microsoft had something around 95% of the desktop market share in the 90s. Apple is not anywhere close that. I would agree it's similar in behavior but not intent. Microsoft was terrified of the Internet and applications that could "run anywhere" so they tried to control how people accessed the Internet. Apple is arguably adding these features because it's what their user's want.
- spogbiper 4y ago
  > Microsoft was terrified of the Internet and applications that could "run anywhere" so they tried to control how people accessed the Internet I see reflections of this throughout the history of the iPhone. Apple has always controlled how people access both the internet and even what applications they can install. Every "browser" on iOS is just Safari with a skin for example, because Apple will not allow any other browser engine.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Apple will not allow other browser engines because they are a subset of "programs that run arbitrary code". Allowing anyone to put their browser engine on iOS through the App Store would open the door to a wide variety of security problems. It would also effectively bypass the App Store, as Google (just as a totally random example) could release their own iOS "browser" that's actually their own platform for apps that they sell. Not to mention inserting their own ads into anything people browsed on it. And tracking literally every single tap and text entry that people do in that browser, including bank passwords, credit card info, etc. On a platform like the Mac, that doesn't matter very much, because it's small enough that basically no one would bother. On iOS? If you could get 0.0001¢ per website visit from even 1% of iOS users, that would be a money-printing machine.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > Apple is arguably adding these features because it's what their user's want. Apple would certainly argue that, yes. Foremost though, they're adding it because it's what Apple wants, and conveniently converges with the desire of the user.
ubermonkey 4y ago
Absolutely not. People who didn't live through that era really don't appreciate a key aspect of it, which was that MSFT OWNED the desktop -- like, 90+% of the market. There were no other real options. For a good chunk of that period, Apple was seriously on the ropes and might not have survived. (Michael Dell famously said it should be sold off and the money returned to the investors.) Microsoft had deals in place with PC makers so that it was impossible, nearly, to buy a computer without buying a Windows license. BillG specifically told Netscape he planned to "cut off their oxygen supply" by shipping a browser with Windows, and he did this because he was smart enough to see that browser-based software could endanger their control of computing. That was literally illegal. No one has anything like the control they had back then. The desktop market is still mostly Windows, but Apple got healthy and took a decent chunk back. Now there's also ChromeOS and Linux out there, too -- plus, we have mobile, which is an even BIGGER chunk of the platform market, and it's split between iOS and Android. So that's at least 6 different software platforms a hypothetical user could pick in 2022, and they're spread over dozens of hardware manufacturers. That's been the norm for so long now that it's easy to forget how little choice we had in 1998. *ANYWAY* the bigger point is that adding features to your system isn't a problem if you're not acting as a monopolist. Microsoft WAS in the 90s. Nobody has that ability now.
- dysarray 4y ago
  There are still a lot of companies out there with significant control over their respective markets. Apple, for example, still has a huge control over the mobile device market and is not afraid to use it to their advantage. Companies like Amazon and Google also have significant control over their respective markets, particularly in the technology space. Seems like we can never relax, always some company waiting for the chance to take over a space. Gotta stay vigilant.
- oblio 4y ago
  Apple just undercut this by creating an ecosystem which funnels something like 80% of mobile profits in their pockets. Then they just point at marketshare and say: "we only have 30% worldwide". Yeah, but your stuff is aspirational and the vast majority of Android users have lower disposable income so spend less and many switch to iOS when they have enough money. It's very sneaky and it's breaking everything down. Laws just haven't caught up to it.
scarface74 4y ago
Why do people act like what happened in the MS anti trust case is lost to the annals of history? Absolutely nothing came of the bundling IE with Windows in the US. There was never a time that IE was not bundled with Windows because of the lawsuit and there was no browser choice mandate in the US.

That's exactly the antitrust issue Microsoft ran into isn't it?

by enjo 4y ago

That's exactly the antitrust issue Microsoft ran into isn't it?

bink 4y ago

Microsoft had something around 95% of the desktop market share in the 90s. Apple is not anywhere close that. I would agree it's similar in behavior but not intent. Microsoft was terrified of the Internet and applications that could "run anywhere" so they tried to control how people accessed the Internet. Apple is arguably adding these features because it's what their user's want.

spogbiper 4y ago
> Microsoft was terrified of the Internet and applications that could "run anywhere" so they tried to control how people accessed the Internet I see reflections of this throughout the history of the iPhone. Apple has always controlled how people access both the internet and even what applications they can install. Every "browser" on iOS is just Safari with a skin for example, because Apple will not allow any other browser engine.
- danaris 4y ago
  Apple will not allow other browser engines because they are a subset of "programs that run arbitrary code". Allowing anyone to put their browser engine on iOS through the App Store would open the door to a wide variety of security problems. It would also effectively bypass the App Store, as Google (just as a totally random example) could release their own iOS "browser" that's actually their own platform for apps that they sell. Not to mention inserting their own ads into anything people browsed on it. And tracking literally every single tap and text entry that people do in that browser, including bank passwords, credit card info, etc. On a platform like the Mac, that doesn't matter very much, because it's small enough that basically no one would bother. On iOS? If you could get 0.0001¢ per website visit from even 1% of iOS users, that would be a money-printing machine.
smoldesu 4y ago
> Apple is arguably adding these features because it's what their user's want. Apple would certainly argue that, yes. Foremost though, they're adding it because it's what Apple wants, and conveniently converges with the desire of the user.

ubermonkey 4y ago

Absolutely not. People who didn't live through that era really don't appreciate a key aspect of it, which was that MSFT OWNED the desktop -- like, 90+% of the market. There were no other real options. For a good chunk of that period, Apple was seriously on the ropes and might not have survived. (Michael Dell famously said it should be sold off and the money returned to the investors.) Microsoft had deals in place with PC makers so that it was impossible, nearly, to buy a computer without buying a Windows license. BillG specifically told Netscape he planned to "cut off their oxygen supply" by shipping a browser with Windows, and he did this because he was smart enough to see that browser-based software could endanger their control of computing. That was literally illegal. No one has anything like the control they had back then. The desktop market is still mostly Windows, but Apple got healthy and took a decent chunk back. Now there's also ChromeOS and Linux out there, too -- plus, we have mobile, which is an even BIGGER chunk of the platform market, and it's split between iOS and Android. So that's at least 6 different software platforms a hypothetical user could pick in 2022, and they're spread over dozens of hardware manufacturers. That's been the norm for so long now that it's easy to forget how little choice we had in 1998. *ANYWAY* the bigger point is that adding features to your system isn't a problem if you're not acting as a monopolist. Microsoft WAS in the 90s. Nobody has that ability now.

dysarray 4y ago
There are still a lot of companies out there with significant control over their respective markets. Apple, for example, still has a huge control over the mobile device market and is not afraid to use it to their advantage. Companies like Amazon and Google also have significant control over their respective markets, particularly in the technology space. Seems like we can never relax, always some company waiting for the chance to take over a space. Gotta stay vigilant.
oblio 4y ago
Apple just undercut this by creating an ecosystem which funnels something like 80% of mobile profits in their pockets. Then they just point at marketshare and say: "we only have 30% worldwide". Yeah, but your stuff is aspirational and the vast majority of Android users have lower disposable income so spend less and many switch to iOS when they have enough money. It's very sneaky and it's breaking everything down. Laws just haven't caught up to it.

scarface74 4y ago

Why do people act like what happened in the MS anti trust case is lost to the annals of history? Absolutely nothing came of the bundling IE with Windows in the US. There was never a time that IE was not bundled with Windows because of the lawsuit and there was no browser choice mandate in the US.