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Yeah, I'm very skeptical. Just the decision to announce this by press release rather than peer reviewed paper suggests there are a lot of uncomfortable question

Yeah, I'm very skeptical. Just the decision to announce this by press release rather than peer reviewed paper suggests there are a lot of uncomfortable questions, similar to what you raised, that the authors are trying to avoid.

AlotOfReading 4y ago
Berger's been taking some heat on Twitter where he announced this [1]. Apparently he considers a public-interest lecture and a publicity tour equivalent to a preprint on something like SSRN. Can't say I agree, but it seems to have been effective in getting people to talk about it. [1] https://twitter.com/LeeRberger/status/1599965297993129984?s=20&t=OcTy8jwBi4IdCMHF0cioUg https://twitter.com/LeeRberger/status/1599965297993129984?s=...
- tokai 4y ago
  I mean he's kind of right. A preprint is just a badly formatted blog post published in a pdf. Until its finished and published. At least if one see peer-review journal literature as the gold standard of scientific discourse. Maybe this Berger thing has more to it, but scientists can (and maybe even should) talk about their ongoing research before there is a paper behind it.
  - AlotOfReading 4y ago
    It's not the public awareness stuff that I'm concerned about. That's just a necessary fact of life that I've also been involved with on my own digs. I'm personally simply skeptical that the research conditions necessary to make a Netflix special (premiering in May-June apparently) are also conducive to high quality academic work. Publishing a preprint goes partway to addressing that by showing everyone where their results will fit into the existing literature and strengthen the published paper by hearing / addressing public criticisms before they actually publish.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > he's kind of right. A preprint is just a badly formatted blog post published in a pdf. Until its finished and published No, it has empirical data, most importantly, and also methods, analysis, conclusions, citations. It's nothing like a blog post, or another way of looking it it - it is an extraordinary blog post.
    - tokai 4y ago
      Oh yeah all those things have never been seen in a blog post. But you are missing the point.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Twitter - that's become the perfect venue for this kind of thing, but not in the way Berger imagines. > he considers a public-interest lecture and a publicity tour equivalent to a preprint on something like SSRN There's all the difference in the world: A preprint has empirical data (not to mention an hypothesis, methods, analysis, conclusion). > it seems to have been effective in getting people to talk about it That has nothing to do with science. No scientific advance is connected to the public talking about it.

AlotOfReading 4y ago

Berger's been taking some heat on Twitter where he announced this [1]. Apparently he considers a public-interest lecture and a publicity tour equivalent to a preprint on something like SSRN. Can't say I agree, but it seems to have been effective in getting people to talk about it. [1] https://twitter.com/LeeRberger/status/1599965297993129984?s=20&t=OcTy8jwBi4IdCMHF0cioUg https://twitter.com/LeeRberger/status/1599965297993129984?s=...

tokai 4y ago
I mean he's kind of right. A preprint is just a badly formatted blog post published in a pdf. Until its finished and published. At least if one see peer-review journal literature as the gold standard of scientific discourse. Maybe this Berger thing has more to it, but scientists can (and maybe even should) talk about their ongoing research before there is a paper behind it.
- AlotOfReading 4y ago
  It's not the public awareness stuff that I'm concerned about. That's just a necessary fact of life that I've also been involved with on my own digs. I'm personally simply skeptical that the research conditions necessary to make a Netflix special (premiering in May-June apparently) are also conducive to high quality academic work. Publishing a preprint goes partway to addressing that by showing everyone where their results will fit into the existing literature and strengthen the published paper by hearing / addressing public criticisms before they actually publish.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > he's kind of right. A preprint is just a badly formatted blog post published in a pdf. Until its finished and published No, it has empirical data, most importantly, and also methods, analysis, conclusions, citations. It's nothing like a blog post, or another way of looking it it - it is an extraordinary blog post.
  - tokai 4y ago
    Oh yeah all those things have never been seen in a blog post. But you are missing the point.
wolverine876 4y ago
Twitter - that's become the perfect venue for this kind of thing, but not in the way Berger imagines. > he considers a public-interest lecture and a publicity tour equivalent to a preprint on something like SSRN There's all the difference in the world: A preprint has empirical data (not to mention an hypothesis, methods, analysis, conclusion). > it seems to have been effective in getting people to talk about it That has nothing to do with science. No scientific advance is connected to the public talking about it.