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Why is data residency law cool and progressive when the EU does it and Big Tech complies, but Bad and Dystopian when China does the same? Tim Cook has said on t

Why is data residency law cool and progressive when the EU does it and Big Tech complies, but Bad and Dystopian when China does the same? Tim Cook has said on the record that iCloud is the same regardless of data center.

sofixa 4y ago
Because the reasons for data sovereignty as legislated by the EU and countries within it, and China, are drastically different. Which one is the authoritarian regime which jails dissidents and which one has regulations giving consumers rights over their data? I'm fairly certain the motives for data sovereignty are wildly different.
- shuckles 4y ago
  I’m not sure if you’re aware, but there are anti-encryption legislative proposals in the EU which are as ill-informed and scary as anything I’ve heard of in Mainland China. It’s very unclear to me if motives matter in this case.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    China has a reputation for hunting down religious minorities and political dissidents, Europe is known for a more moderate take on those matters. I think there's cause for concern when China demands domestic ownership of iCloud info.
    - shuckles 4y ago
      The technical proposals are equally odious, and Europe is, what, 30 years removed from all sorts of authoritarian hijinks? In any case, selective support for technical proposals based on broader political vibes is not a particularly inspiring stance.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        You seem to have missed my point entirely then. I'm in full support of Apple holding themselves accountable for the data they hold, but they don't. As a result, we rely on "broader political vibes" to read between the lines.
        shuckles 4y ago
        I’m not sure what you mean by “holding themselves accountable for the data they hold”, but you began by implying data residency was compromising security at the behest of a government, but it does not itself do anything of that sort. Your technical claim is outright false.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      You mean like the French banning burkinis worn my religious minorities? https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/21/europe/grenoble-france-burkini-ban-pools-upheld-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/21/europe/grenoble-france-burkin...
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        Would it surprise you to learn that France also bans female genital mutilation, another religious practice enforced on people who typically have no say in the matter? These bans apply to people of any religion and of no religion. Let's not pretend this is the same thing as kidnapping you and taking you to a reeducation camp because of your religion, leaving your kids alone and confused.
        scarface74 4y ago
        So you put banning the clothes you can wear because you want to be modest with female genital mutilation?
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        Let's be clear about what we're discussing. France prevented a law that would have allowed burkinis to circumvent existing public pool rules that require a swim cap and forbid baggy clothes and certain sun protection suits. People forced to wear certain clothes by others in their religion do not get special exceptions. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna34833 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna34833
        scarface74 4y ago
        You realize that your citation actually reinforces the idea that the only reason this law was passed was because the government was against them to enforce “secularism”? No one claimed that they were being “forced” to be part of a religion. What next? Forcing people to eat pork even if it is against their religion to enforce “secularism”? This was nothing more than discrimination. In the US, we had to have laws that allowed Black girls to wear their hair the way they wanted and schools were forcing black girls to straighten their hair to fit in. https://www.naacpldf.org/natural-hair-discrimination/ https://www.naacpldf.org/natural-hair-discrimination/
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      > Europe is known for a more moderate take on those matters. Very recently in history. China is bad now, European nations have been bad in the past… but who knows what the future holds. Once data is released (keys, databases, plaintext messages, it doesn’t matter) it can’t be made private later.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You mean the same one that wants to lessen encryption so they can spy on you? https://www.secureworld.io/industry-news/new-eu-push-for-encryption-back-door https://www.secureworld.io/industry-news/new-eu-push-for-enc...

sofixa 4y ago

Because the reasons for data sovereignty as legislated by the EU and countries within it, and China, are drastically different. Which one is the authoritarian regime which jails dissidents and which one has regulations giving consumers rights over their data? I'm fairly certain the motives for data sovereignty are wildly different.

shuckles 4y ago
I’m not sure if you’re aware, but there are anti-encryption legislative proposals in the EU which are as ill-informed and scary as anything I’ve heard of in Mainland China. It’s very unclear to me if motives matter in this case.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  China has a reputation for hunting down religious minorities and political dissidents, Europe is known for a more moderate take on those matters. I think there's cause for concern when China demands domestic ownership of iCloud info.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    The technical proposals are equally odious, and Europe is, what, 30 years removed from all sorts of authoritarian hijinks? In any case, selective support for technical proposals based on broader political vibes is not a particularly inspiring stance.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      You seem to have missed my point entirely then. I'm in full support of Apple holding themselves accountable for the data they hold, but they don't. As a result, we rely on "broader political vibes" to read between the lines.
      - shuckles 4y ago
        I’m not sure what you mean by “holding themselves accountable for the data they hold”, but you began by implying data residency was compromising security at the behest of a government, but it does not itself do anything of that sort. Your technical claim is outright false.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You mean like the French banning burkinis worn my religious minorities? https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/21/europe/grenoble-france-burkini-ban-pools-upheld-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/21/europe/grenoble-france-burkin...
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      Would it surprise you to learn that France also bans female genital mutilation, another religious practice enforced on people who typically have no say in the matter? These bans apply to people of any religion and of no religion. Let's not pretend this is the same thing as kidnapping you and taking you to a reeducation camp because of your religion, leaving your kids alone and confused.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        So you put banning the clothes you can wear because you want to be modest with female genital mutilation?
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        Let's be clear about what we're discussing. France prevented a law that would have allowed burkinis to circumvent existing public pool rules that require a swim cap and forbid baggy clothes and certain sun protection suits. People forced to wear certain clothes by others in their religion do not get special exceptions. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna34833 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna34833
        scarface74 4y ago
        You realize that your citation actually reinforces the idea that the only reason this law was passed was because the government was against them to enforce “secularism”? No one claimed that they were being “forced” to be part of a religion. What next? Forcing people to eat pork even if it is against their religion to enforce “secularism”? This was nothing more than discrimination. In the US, we had to have laws that allowed Black girls to wear their hair the way they wanted and schools were forcing black girls to straighten their hair to fit in. https://www.naacpldf.org/natural-hair-discrimination/ https://www.naacpldf.org/natural-hair-discrimination/
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    > Europe is known for a more moderate take on those matters. Very recently in history. China is bad now, European nations have been bad in the past… but who knows what the future holds. Once data is released (keys, databases, plaintext messages, it doesn’t matter) it can’t be made private later.
scarface74 4y ago
You mean the same one that wants to lessen encryption so they can spy on you? https://www.secureworld.io/industry-news/new-eu-push-for-encryption-back-door https://www.secureworld.io/industry-news/new-eu-push-for-enc...