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https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-quality-national-summary https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-quality-national-summary > EPA creates air quality trends using

https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-quality-national-summary https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-quality-national-summary > EPA creates air quality trends using measurements from monitors located across the country. The table below show that air quality based on concentrations of the common pollutants has improved nationally since 1980. > emissions of the common air pollutants and their precursors have been reduced substantially since 1980. > from 1990 to 2017 emissions of air toxics declined by 74 percent

idiotsecant 4y ago
While this is true on average it's apparent to me that you are not a resident of the American PNW, or you'd understand that the national average of air toxins is not what this article is discussing. For the last decade the yearly forest fires in the american northwest have been getting worse and worse and the levels of pm2.5 particulates in the air air are not only unhealthy, but dangerous for all groups (not just the old or young or sick) for weeks or months at a time depending on your exact location. It's a huge problem.
- rmah 4y ago
  Seems to me that when you have a lot of forests, you eventually get forest fires. I don't see much way around this except regularly cutting down the trees. Too many people think that nature always finds an equilibrium (the "balance of nature" idea) when left alone. That's often not true. It often cycles between extremes.
  - culi 4y ago
    Or... we could just let indigenous people do their cultural burns. Cultural burns were banned in California before California was even technically a state. It's moronic. These practices have been in place for thousands of years and much of the flora of at least California shows many signs of adaptation to these frequent, low-frequency burns. These types of burn practices reduce the amount of fuel for wildfires, help fight invasive species while promoting native species, produce charcoal that purify the waterways, protect the soils from the higher intensity fires that can often turn soil infertile, and increase the production of certain native foodcrops like acorns and blueberries. Indigenous people throughout the west coast are fighting for their rights to reclaim their stewardship role. Frankly, we should be paying them, not challenging them https://www.nps.gov/subjects/fire/indigenous-fire-practices-shape-our-land.htm https://www.nps.gov/subjects/fire/indigenous-fire-practices-... https://www.vox.com/22518592/indigenous-people-conserve-nature-icca https://www.vox.com/22518592/indigenous-people-conserve-natu...
    - hombre_fatal 4y ago
      Is controlled burning some lost technology that only a modern druid can bring back? Or is it something states already do, and when they don't, it's for political reasons and various other concerns and even failings, not because there's nobody who knows how to steward the burn? I could even imagine that, for political reasons, some indigenous entity is the right hand for the job. But surely not because they possess some secret hereditary epistemology in 2022.
      - culi 4y ago
        Controlled burns are something firefighters are something many states are finally starting to recognize the importance of and providing funding for. However, given how critically understaffed firefighters are (e.g. California has ~3.5k fighterfighters total, down from 5k a few years ago) and how undertrained they are for a technique that has only recently been recognized for its importance, it's hard to imagine us having any success without the help of the indigenous communities that are fighting for the RIGHT to practice their cultural burns Besides that, prescribed burns and cultural burns often have different goals. Firefighters sole goal is to use up residual fuel sources to prevent larger fires. Cultural burning practices are often done with the aim of supporting the health of forests and other ecosystems. They're often much more narrowly scoped and frequent and require much more intimate knowledge of specific ecosystems and landscapes. Given that so many tribes have been displaced from their homeland, a lot of this knowledge is lost. But the goals of these communities are to revitalize landscapes with the intent of returning to them and make use of them. I think it's that fundamental difference in goals that tends to cultivate much more thorough ecological knowledge about specific landscapes often shown in cultural burning practices Hazard-reduction burns also simply use different techniques. They tend to rely on drip-torches to burn through control lines. These types of fires are controlled but still very hot and damaging to the soil. Compare that to indigenous experts that use a wide range of techniques to ensure the fires are as slow moving and cool as possible
        justinwp 4y ago
        Having spent years working for USFS/NPS etc I disagree with your take that prescribed burns have significantly different goals. The scoping documents always identify numerous benefits to forest health and are created with input from specialists ranging from hydrologists to biologists and archeologists. The techniques are not necessarily relevant to fire intensity which is more a result of current conditions.
wizofaus 4y ago
Which is mentioned in the article, but notes that's been recently overwhelmed by particulates from wildfires etc.
culi 4y ago
You should read the OP > Researchers say that laws intended to combat air pollution don’t address increasingly important sources, such as wildfires and dust. In fact, the EPA created an exemption for the increased air pollution that occurs during wildfires, dust storms and similar events considered to be ‘natural’. The agency’s ‘exceptional events rule’, adopted in 2007, excludes days when such events happen from consideration by regulators. > By pruning outliers deemed ‘natural exceptions’, the regulatory data set is skewed, says Katie Clifford, author of a paper this year that called the practice into question.
anigbrowl 4y ago
The EPA is arguably subject to both regulatory capture and legislative/judicial boundaries that limit the scope of its mission. This is not to say your source article isn't valuable, but that it probably can't tell the whole story.

idiotsecant 4y ago

While this is true on average it's apparent to me that you are not a resident of the American PNW, or you'd understand that the national average of air toxins is not what this article is discussing. For the last decade the yearly forest fires in the american northwest have been getting worse and worse and the levels of pm2.5 particulates in the air air are not only unhealthy, but dangerous for all groups (not just the old or young or sick) for weeks or months at a time depending on your exact location. It's a huge problem.

rmah 4y ago
Seems to me that when you have a lot of forests, you eventually get forest fires. I don't see much way around this except regularly cutting down the trees. Too many people think that nature always finds an equilibrium (the "balance of nature" idea) when left alone. That's often not true. It often cycles between extremes.
- culi 4y ago
  Or... we could just let indigenous people do their cultural burns. Cultural burns were banned in California before California was even technically a state. It's moronic. These practices have been in place for thousands of years and much of the flora of at least California shows many signs of adaptation to these frequent, low-frequency burns. These types of burn practices reduce the amount of fuel for wildfires, help fight invasive species while promoting native species, produce charcoal that purify the waterways, protect the soils from the higher intensity fires that can often turn soil infertile, and increase the production of certain native foodcrops like acorns and blueberries. Indigenous people throughout the west coast are fighting for their rights to reclaim their stewardship role. Frankly, we should be paying them, not challenging them https://www.nps.gov/subjects/fire/indigenous-fire-practices-shape-our-land.htm https://www.nps.gov/subjects/fire/indigenous-fire-practices-... https://www.vox.com/22518592/indigenous-people-conserve-nature-icca https://www.vox.com/22518592/indigenous-people-conserve-natu...
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    Is controlled burning some lost technology that only a modern druid can bring back? Or is it something states already do, and when they don't, it's for political reasons and various other concerns and even failings, not because there's nobody who knows how to steward the burn? I could even imagine that, for political reasons, some indigenous entity is the right hand for the job. But surely not because they possess some secret hereditary epistemology in 2022.
    - culi 4y ago
      Controlled burns are something firefighters are something many states are finally starting to recognize the importance of and providing funding for. However, given how critically understaffed firefighters are (e.g. California has ~3.5k fighterfighters total, down from 5k a few years ago) and how undertrained they are for a technique that has only recently been recognized for its importance, it's hard to imagine us having any success without the help of the indigenous communities that are fighting for the RIGHT to practice their cultural burns Besides that, prescribed burns and cultural burns often have different goals. Firefighters sole goal is to use up residual fuel sources to prevent larger fires. Cultural burning practices are often done with the aim of supporting the health of forests and other ecosystems. They're often much more narrowly scoped and frequent and require much more intimate knowledge of specific ecosystems and landscapes. Given that so many tribes have been displaced from their homeland, a lot of this knowledge is lost. But the goals of these communities are to revitalize landscapes with the intent of returning to them and make use of them. I think it's that fundamental difference in goals that tends to cultivate much more thorough ecological knowledge about specific landscapes often shown in cultural burning practices Hazard-reduction burns also simply use different techniques. They tend to rely on drip-torches to burn through control lines. These types of fires are controlled but still very hot and damaging to the soil. Compare that to indigenous experts that use a wide range of techniques to ensure the fires are as slow moving and cool as possible
      - justinwp 4y ago
        Having spent years working for USFS/NPS etc I disagree with your take that prescribed burns have significantly different goals. The scoping documents always identify numerous benefits to forest health and are created with input from specialists ranging from hydrologists to biologists and archeologists. The techniques are not necessarily relevant to fire intensity which is more a result of current conditions.

wizofaus 4y ago

Which is mentioned in the article, but notes that's been recently overwhelmed by particulates from wildfires etc.

culi 4y ago

You should read the OP > Researchers say that laws intended to combat air pollution don’t address increasingly important sources, such as wildfires and dust. In fact, the EPA created an exemption for the increased air pollution that occurs during wildfires, dust storms and similar events considered to be ‘natural’. The agency’s ‘exceptional events rule’, adopted in 2007, excludes days when such events happen from consideration by regulators. > By pruning outliers deemed ‘natural exceptions’, the regulatory data set is skewed, says Katie Clifford, author of a paper this year that called the practice into question.

anigbrowl 4y ago

The EPA is arguably subject to both regulatory capture and legislative/judicial boundaries that limit the scope of its mission. This is not to say your source article isn't valuable, but that it probably can't tell the whole story.