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I know this feels trite but do other industries do a better job of messaging layoffs? I was laid off from a non-tech company in 2006-2007. There was no message

I know this feels trite but do other industries do a better job of messaging layoffs? I was laid off from a non-tech company in 2006-2007. There was no message from the CEO, no public admission of fault, etc. We knew the layoffs were coming. On the Friday of the layoff, my manager came around and took me to the HR office. I stood in line with others to sign some paperwork. I was then escorted back to my desk to collect my things and walked outside. My commute was about 1.5 hr and had I known, I wouldn't even have bothered showing up. The company laid off about 15% of its workforce. There wasn't any sign of contrition on part of the CEO. Heck even the HR people didn't seem to care. Perhaps our standard of how to do these have changed?

bombcar 4y ago
Tech companies are valued on a house of cards (many of them) and so the investors are spooked by layoffs, so the CEO feels they need to say something. This isn't present in many other companies, though the largest ones will still say something to not spook the shareholders. Layoffs from small companies are rarely heard of outside the company, but we hear about small tech companies because of the investor aspect.
- stu2b50 4y ago
  We hear about small tech companies because this is hacker news, the discussion forum owned by Y-combinator the tech incubator… Also, small tech companies have >1b valuations, however paper thin, which is fairly unique.
trollied 4y ago
When I worked for Lucent many moons ago, they hired an external consultant to do the layoffs. Word soon got round that if you got a desk call from a specific meeting room it’d be bad news, from 2 other meeting rooms it’d be good news. I volunteered, so it was different for me, but the least they could have done was get direct management (in conjunction with HR) to do it. The working relationships & office culture were good enough to do it. I guess it’s just one of those things that somebody will always complain about. Meta got a good kicking for laying people off, but that package they gave was amazing, for example.
mooreds 4y ago
> I know this feels trite but do other industries do a better job of messaging layoffs? I don't think there's a better way to do layoffs. For all the groaning on HN about these announcements, at least they are: * up front about it (maybe because they have to be, due to laws) * being generous with severance and the other parts of the package Hopefully the actual interaction at the person-to-person level is humane too (turning on video if done over video call, letting people know asap, having one to one meetings with each person). The only better path I can think of is "okay, growth is slowing, tough times ahead, we're going to need to collectively tighten our belts and keep working. 25% haircut for everyone, but I screwed up, so a 50% haircut for me." Here's an article about companies that did that during covid: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/business/economy/coronavirus-pay-cuts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/business/economy/coronavi... I don't know how typical that is in non-pandemic times. Doing this would turn off some folks, but to me that feels better than layoffs. And I think it would go a long way towards improving company loyalty.
caseysoftware 4y ago
> Perhaps our standard of how to do these have changed? Probably because the tech community has demonstrated that they'll speak freely on social media, with reporters, etc and the risk of being dragged and hurting future customer & hiring prospects is high.
chinchilla2020 4y ago
Previously I worked in the energy industry. Layoffs were definitely far more lucrative for employees. * Most individual contributors received 1-2 years of pay * Next bonus cycle was paid out early as part of severance * Contract employees were fully paid out their 1-3 year contracts (Why the hell don't tech startups offer contracts? Another discussion we should have some day) * Senior employers were usually 'bridged to retirement' * A consultant was hired to assist each employee with finding their next job * Voluntary severance options were offered pre-layoff * COBRA was paid out for a long time after severance ended (varied by employee) Less tangible but arguably more importantly: Employees were warned 6 months ahead that their division would be laying off people. This signal helped employees evaluate life decisions like home purchases, weddings, pregnancy. Also notable is that most other industries doesn't hire people in 'binge' mode like the tech industry did. They will staff up sharply only when positions become available. The tech industries 2020-2022 "hire everyone then figure out what they should work on" caused the layoffs to increase in magnitude. I still wouldn't recommend leaving tech for the energy industry, but that is one of the few aspects where tech is the inferior place to work.
- Plasmoid 4y ago
  > The tech industries 2020-2022 "hire everyone then figure out what they should work on" caused the layoffs to increase in magnitude. So many companies hired borderline recklessly during the pandemic. The question in my mind was "Where did these people come from?" and "Is this demand really sustainable?"
- pcurve 4y ago
  That is shockingly good. It almost seems too good to be true.
MangoCoffee 4y ago
>I was laid off from a non-tech company in 2006-2007. There was no message from the CEO, no public admission of fault, etc. same. i've been in IT for 10+ years in none tech companies as well. i never got any message from CEO for mass layoff. no message from CEO seem to be pretty standard outside of Silicon Valley.
mkipper 4y ago
I used to work for a defense contractor where layoffs were pretty regular. If the company wasn't winning new contracts, they couldn't afford to keep paying all the staff. It's a pretty simple arrangement, and when layoffs happened, you didn't expect any heartfelt message from leadership about how unexpected it was and how hard they tried to avoid it. It's just the reality of that business and everyone knew that. In a way, most tech companies are similar. The main thing they try to demonstrate to investors is growth. One aspect of this is hiring as many people as possible when times are good, knowing full well that when the market has a downturn, they'll be overstaffed and forced to lay people off. This seems to be how tech companies work, and investors seem to prefer for tech companies to be run this way. Mass layoffs are pretty much inevitable unless the market stays rosy forever. So it's a bit patronizing to see a CEO write about how hard of a decision it was, or how they really tried to avoid this at all costs. They might not have predicted COVID, but they absolutely knew they were steering the ship in a direction where this was going to happen eventually. To be fair, the messaging in this Plaid announcement is about as good as you can do IMO. They chose to hire at a rate that is only sustainable in an environment of infinite growth and they now have to reconcile with that. There isn't much mention of how heartbreaking this for the CEO, how much they love every member of the Plaid family, or how this is an absolute last resort they tried to avoid at all costs. It's just the result of how they chose to run the business. I think that's about all you can really say.
- nunez 4y ago
  airlines are like this as well. they hire during the boom times and furlough during bust times. hundreds of thousands of people were furloughed during COVID, for example. it's even worse for pilots since their seniority resets, which can set them back compensation-wise for their entire careers if they are unlucky it's the unwritten rule. trade a stable paycheck and a predictable lifestyle for fungability.
kaitrain87 4y ago
I don't know if others do. There seems to be a news article, an internal hint, and then with a letter or message from the CEO that accompanies the layoff. The script that these companies all follow is pretty much the same. I wrote down some observations on what CEOs put out on the weekend, and it's been a good bingo sheet of what Plaid did as well. [1]Satire: https://digitalmonologue.com/2022/12/04/How-to-write-a-layoff-letter.html https://digitalmonologue.com/2022/12/04/How-to-write-a-layof...

bombcar 4y ago

Tech companies are valued on a house of cards (many of them) and so the investors are spooked by layoffs, so the CEO feels they need to say something. This isn't present in many other companies, though the largest ones will still say something to not spook the shareholders. Layoffs from small companies are rarely heard of outside the company, but we hear about small tech companies because of the investor aspect.

stu2b50 4y ago
We hear about small tech companies because this is hacker news, the discussion forum owned by Y-combinator the tech incubator… Also, small tech companies have >1b valuations, however paper thin, which is fairly unique.

trollied 4y ago

When I worked for Lucent many moons ago, they hired an external consultant to do the layoffs. Word soon got round that if you got a desk call from a specific meeting room it’d be bad news, from 2 other meeting rooms it’d be good news. I volunteered, so it was different for me, but the least they could have done was get direct management (in conjunction with HR) to do it. The working relationships & office culture were good enough to do it. I guess it’s just one of those things that somebody will always complain about. Meta got a good kicking for laying people off, but that package they gave was amazing, for example.

mooreds 4y ago

> I know this feels trite but do other industries do a better job of messaging layoffs? I don't think there's a better way to do layoffs. For all the groaning on HN about these announcements, at least they are: * up front about it (maybe because they have to be, due to laws) * being generous with severance and the other parts of the package Hopefully the actual interaction at the person-to-person level is humane too (turning on video if done over video call, letting people know asap, having one to one meetings with each person). The only better path I can think of is "okay, growth is slowing, tough times ahead, we're going to need to collectively tighten our belts and keep working. 25% haircut for everyone, but I screwed up, so a 50% haircut for me." Here's an article about companies that did that during covid: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/business/economy/coronavirus-pay-cuts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/business/economy/coronavi... I don't know how typical that is in non-pandemic times. Doing this would turn off some folks, but to me that feels better than layoffs. And I think it would go a long way towards improving company loyalty.

caseysoftware 4y ago

> Perhaps our standard of how to do these have changed? Probably because the tech community has demonstrated that they'll speak freely on social media, with reporters, etc and the risk of being dragged and hurting future customer & hiring prospects is high.

chinchilla2020 4y ago

Previously I worked in the energy industry. Layoffs were definitely far more lucrative for employees. * Most individual contributors received 1-2 years of pay * Next bonus cycle was paid out early as part of severance * Contract employees were fully paid out their 1-3 year contracts (Why the hell don't tech startups offer contracts? Another discussion we should have some day) * Senior employers were usually 'bridged to retirement' * A consultant was hired to assist each employee with finding their next job * Voluntary severance options were offered pre-layoff * COBRA was paid out for a long time after severance ended (varied by employee) Less tangible but arguably more importantly: Employees were warned 6 months ahead that their division would be laying off people. This signal helped employees evaluate life decisions like home purchases, weddings, pregnancy. Also notable is that most other industries doesn't hire people in 'binge' mode like the tech industry did. They will staff up sharply only when positions become available. The tech industries 2020-2022 "hire everyone then figure out what they should work on" caused the layoffs to increase in magnitude. I still wouldn't recommend leaving tech for the energy industry, but that is one of the few aspects where tech is the inferior place to work.

Plasmoid 4y ago
> The tech industries 2020-2022 "hire everyone then figure out what they should work on" caused the layoffs to increase in magnitude. So many companies hired borderline recklessly during the pandemic. The question in my mind was "Where did these people come from?" and "Is this demand really sustainable?"
pcurve 4y ago
That is shockingly good. It almost seems too good to be true.

MangoCoffee 4y ago

>I was laid off from a non-tech company in 2006-2007. There was no message from the CEO, no public admission of fault, etc. same. i've been in IT for 10+ years in none tech companies as well. i never got any message from CEO for mass layoff. no message from CEO seem to be pretty standard outside of Silicon Valley.

mkipper 4y ago

I used to work for a defense contractor where layoffs were pretty regular. If the company wasn't winning new contracts, they couldn't afford to keep paying all the staff. It's a pretty simple arrangement, and when layoffs happened, you didn't expect any heartfelt message from leadership about how unexpected it was and how hard they tried to avoid it. It's just the reality of that business and everyone knew that. In a way, most tech companies are similar. The main thing they try to demonstrate to investors is growth. One aspect of this is hiring as many people as possible when times are good, knowing full well that when the market has a downturn, they'll be overstaffed and forced to lay people off. This seems to be how tech companies work, and investors seem to prefer for tech companies to be run this way. Mass layoffs are pretty much inevitable unless the market stays rosy forever. So it's a bit patronizing to see a CEO write about how hard of a decision it was, or how they really tried to avoid this at all costs. They might not have predicted COVID, but they absolutely knew they were steering the ship in a direction where this was going to happen eventually. To be fair, the messaging in this Plaid announcement is about as good as you can do IMO. They chose to hire at a rate that is only sustainable in an environment of infinite growth and they now have to reconcile with that. There isn't much mention of how heartbreaking this for the CEO, how much they love every member of the Plaid family, or how this is an absolute last resort they tried to avoid at all costs. It's just the result of how they chose to run the business. I think that's about all you can really say.

nunez 4y ago
airlines are like this as well. they hire during the boom times and furlough during bust times. hundreds of thousands of people were furloughed during COVID, for example. it's even worse for pilots since their seniority resets, which can set them back compensation-wise for their entire careers if they are unlucky it's the unwritten rule. trade a stable paycheck and a predictable lifestyle for fungability.

kaitrain87 4y ago

I don't know if others do. There seems to be a news article, an internal hint, and then with a letter or message from the CEO that accompanies the layoff. The script that these companies all follow is pretty much the same. I wrote down some observations on what CEOs put out on the weekend, and it's been a good bingo sheet of what Plaid did as well. [1]Satire: https://digitalmonologue.com/2022/12/04/How-to-write-a-layoff-letter.html https://digitalmonologue.com/2022/12/04/How-to-write-a-layof...