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In the chimpanzee world, this would be handled differently. In chimp world, when alpha chimp causes chaos that brings down the community, a group of beta chimp
by game_the0ry 4y ago
In the chimpanzee world, this would be handled differently.
In chimp world, when alpha chimp causes chaos that brings down the community, a group of beta chimps will tear apart alpha chimp limb-by-limb, then they elect a new alpha from the group of beta subversives. This also how the organized crime works - leaders get a lot of benefits, but they also get the downside accountability when they fuck up ("skin in the game").
In modern corporate america, this relationship is broken - when CEO fucks up, he just fires a bunch of people, and then collects the bonus at the end of year in the for of stock performance (layoffs are to maintain stock performance). This is why finds the half-hearted apologies to be hollow and unpalatable.
Let us bring back accountability. Apes. Together. Strong.
- __alexs 4y agoYou have the analogy wrong though. The other apes in the corporate world are the shareholders, not the employees. The employees are the sticks the chimps use to dig up termites.
- Waterluvian 4y agoBut the employees are faaaaaaaamily … …until they’re inconvenient. Then we give them some supplies and dump them at the local fire station.
- Giorgi 4y agoWhat is your solution? Burn trough money by paying some people that you don't need and then leave everyone unemployed? They are not inconvenient they are not needed anymore. At least they get some supplies. Most of the world don't get jack.
- UncleMeat 4y agoWhat does "don't need" mean? The solution is to have employees at least have some seat at the table for this process. How are layoffs chosen? How are severance benefits chosen? We are currently seeing generous severance benefits at most of these companies, but absolutely nothing guarantees this. The solution is that when the CEO wants to lay off 15% of the company they go to the employees and say "okay, we need to lay off 15% of the company, let's work together to find the best way to do this."
- Giorgi 4y agoAnd employees would come back and say "okay we decided there are no layoffs, for us it's better for you to pay us money till company is burned down"
- tacker2000 4y agoThe problem is in real life your analogy would actually map the alphas to the ceos and the betas to the shareholders/stakeholders. The employees are nowhere in this. Edit: as the other post said, they would be the sticks, shovels and other assorted tools…
- game_the0ry 4y agoI studied business in undergrad and took Organizational Behavior [1] as a class - technically, employees are stakeholders. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_behavior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_behavior
- SgtBastard 4y agoGermany gets this balance right.
- RC_ITR 4y agoIf you think this is a sign that plaid is anywhere near their last valuation of $13bn, then I have news for you. The real problem is inequality. Zach is facing consequences, but the drop from $1bn to $100mn (a 10x decline in wealth) is so much less impactful than $250k to $25k (illustrative of what an employee is more likely facing).
- nunez 4y agomaybe for you, but if this person was living on a >$100mn lifestyle, then that 10x decline will actually hurt them!
- RC_ITR 4y agoYou are wholly incorrect. Needs are a hierarchy and the impacts along that hierarchy are non-linear. The billionaire may complain more and often do.
- vineyardmike 4y agoNo it won't! They may feel bad about less yachts and luxury, but they are absolutely not hurting. No one is starving, no one is losing their housing, no one is unable to pay the heating bill. Not even close to hurting. Lets not pity the $100mn-aires that just laid off 260+ people.
- nunez 4y agois anyone working at bigtech that got laid off starving though? bigtech pays a lot of money relative to US median; layoffs should suck for us but not be completely life-altering, especially given the severances/continuance of healthcare/etc. i didn't say that big money ceo will be suffering, but spending more than you have always hurts when you can't afford the debt, and going down in lifestyle always sucks
- vineyardmike 4y agoMost tech layoffs are not software engineers, they’re other positions (which make far less money). All the companies that froze hiring have laid off massive chunks of their recruiting and hiring teams, for example. Sales teams have been impacted eg at Adobe, and some companies are cutting HR and support staff. But that’s not the point, even responsible “normal” workers can’t really be expected to save more than a few months of living expenses, maybe a year if they’re an older employee. I expect most full find a job before then, but that’s “months” away from a really tough time. Even if they don’t starve, it can still be pretty negatively impactful - it’s expected many will draw into retirement and savings, or will need to move to a cheaper housing situation (which is hard in SF), or will struggle to pay for children’s education costs. Some will take on credit card debt to cover expenses, or move in with their parents, or whatever. Starving vs “this billionaire lost a few hundred million” still a lot of room for normal people to suffer.
- vorpalhex 4y agoAnd uh, you volunteering to be the first CEO under this daring new model of yours?
- idontpost 4y ago
- jdnffjvnv 4y agoAre you advocating for mob violence against CEOs for laying people off?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoParent may not be advocating it, but one would have to be willfully blind not to see a tremendous spike in related chatter online ('eat the rich' comes to mind ). If it is not addressed, it will only fester. Open discussion is a way to release some of that pressure.
- vkou 4y agoThere's 'Eat the rich' in the sense of 'They are taking way too much of the pie for themselves', which is a perfectly reasonable conversation to have. And there's this sense of 'Eat the rich', which is trying to find a scapegoat for a... Company whose operations depended on access to cheap credit is laying people off... In an environment where the Fed is actively trying to create unemployment, by raising the cost of credit.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoTo Powell's credit, after the initial pushback, he toned that rhetoric down a little so that it is now a lot more benign. And, it seems for now, rates will not be raised as rapidly. I guess only time will tell.
- refurb 4y agoIf it ever came down to eat the rich I’m sorry to say, but the tech crowd, including employees would be the first up against the wall. Hilarious how employees who make a salary 3-4X the US median somehow think they are the proletariat.
- _djo_ 4y agoRevolutions are usually led by members of privileged classes, backed by the angry masses. Nobody here is saying they desire that type of violent unrest, they're saying it's a likely outcome unless we change course, because as bad as it is for tech workers right now it's so much worse for those less privileged. There's also the realisation that if even the most highly skilled workers in society can be treated so cavalierly and have not have enough certainty of employment and success then the system is broken.
- harveywi 4y agoTired: effective altruism Wired: agAPE
- vkou 4y agoOverhiring right before a recession/tightening of the money supply is not exactly 'bringing chaos to the community'. With the 20/20 benefit of hindsight, its a mistake, but its not a malicious mistake. Also, I'll remind you that the Fed is actively trying to increase unemployment. Do you think that's going to happen without people... Losing their jobs?
- twelve40 4y agoI don't understand the concept of overhiring tbh. Especially for pretty level-headed services like Plaid or Stripe who have very concrete products and do not engage in pie-in-the-sky metaverses. Surely well-run fintechs can plan their work better without wasteful and dramatic swings?
- vkou 4y ago> Surely well-run fintechs can plan their work better without wasteful and dramatic swings? No, because it's really, really hard. During periods of economic upheaval, nobody can reliably predict where all of the inputs into their business, and the demand for outputs of their business are going to be six months from now. (If they could, they should shut down all the 'productive' parts of their business, and just run an investment fund instead.)
- salawat 4y agoNot everyone is interested in doing investment fund things.
- koliber 4y agoWhat if this is not a mistake? If you have 5 people and 10 projects, you hire 5 more to meet the need. If 4 projects go away, you fire 4 people as some would have nothing to do. Where is the mistake? I’m not saying it is always like this and the scenarios above is simplified to illustrate a point. However, it would be silly to assume all companies always grow in headcount, and any downsizing is the CEO somehow messing up.
- Yhippa 4y agoJust spitballing here, maybe the lesson is to not make business plans assuming "stonks always go up" and also take into account a recession.
- subradios 4y agoYou can't, your business strategy has to reflect stonks go up. If your funders are all thinking like stonks go up and you try to build a sustainable YoY profit generating business, you aren't producing a risk reward curve attractive in that environment, and thus won't get funded.
- Apocryphon 4y agoMaybe funders need to stop expecting interest rates would stay low forever.
- koliber 4y agoWhat if the business plan reads something like this: When stonks go up, we hire, and when stonks go down, we fire. That does not seem stupid. It still sucks to be fired. But the alternative world where we avoided firing at all costs, would mean not as many people getting hired when stonks go up.
- pxue 4y agoThe beta chimps are the shareholders and the board.
- refurb 4y agoNot really, the CEO is the beta and the alphas are the shareholders.
- mateo411 4y agoI think the chimpanzee analogy works pretty well in the corporate world too. If the CEO fucks up, then board fires the CEO. They usually don't dismember the CEO, but I don't think it's a pleasant process for anybody. However, everyone involved in this process is compensated very well, so there's no need to feel sorry about it.