3 ms·

"Leave opinion on aesthetics to the experts"?

keiferski 4y ago
That's what functionally happens, yes. If most people revert to an opinion of "well that's just your opinion, it's all entirely subjective," then the people driving what actually gets valued are the ones that bother to educate themselves and be deemed as experts. To use an example: if a person in New York City said that "all the restaurants taste the same and it's all just subjective," would you buy a dining tour guide book from them? Or would you buy a book from someone that has made an effort to understand what makes a restaurant good or not?
- pixl97 4y ago
  Good is multi-axis measure. I have been to 'good' restaurants. Excellent food, immaculate plating, perfect service. Immense cost. This is why I'm heavily discounting your opinion here, because there seems to be a massive amount of axises that are being neglected that make these products 'good'. Energy use per product, general product acceptance to the massive to lower per unit cost, product fungibility are all metrics that can subtract from both subjective and in some cases objective beauty. You could have the most objectively beautiful object in the world, but if I can't have it because it's too difficult to manufacture in bulk or too expensive, then subjectively I think your product isn't that great at all.
  - keiferski 4y ago
    Of course good is a multi-axis measure. This is obvious. Do you really expect someone to write a full theory of aesthetics in a HN comment?
    - cryptonector 4y ago
      Maybe not a full theory, but why not flesh things out a bit here, or else link to your papers or blog posts on the matter? Or if you're not an expert on aesthetics, maybe link to the work of someone who is.
    - blurri 4y ago
      Ah so leave it to the experts who can't explain it without a "full theory of aesthetics".
- cryptonector 4y ago
  What a straw man. No one who "is not an expert on taste" says all the restaurants taste the same and it's all just subjective". Well, ok, maybe people who literally can't taste (I know one such person), but the people who can taste don't ever say anything like that. Most of us don't actually use restaurant guides, and we don't say "wow that was awesome" unironically when we didn't like it but the "experts" told us otherwise. Aesthetics is fairly subjective, yes.

That's what functionally happens, yes. If most people revert to an opinion of "well that's just your opinion, it's all entirely subjective," then the people driving what actually gets valued are the ones that bother to educate themselves and be deemed as experts. To use an example: if a person in New York City said that "all the restaurants taste the same and it's all just subjective," would you buy a dining tour guide book from them? Or would you buy a book from someone that has made an effort to understand what makes a restaurant good or not?

pixl97 4y ago
Good is multi-axis measure. I have been to 'good' restaurants. Excellent food, immaculate plating, perfect service. Immense cost. This is why I'm heavily discounting your opinion here, because there seems to be a massive amount of axises that are being neglected that make these products 'good'. Energy use per product, general product acceptance to the massive to lower per unit cost, product fungibility are all metrics that can subtract from both subjective and in some cases objective beauty. You could have the most objectively beautiful object in the world, but if I can't have it because it's too difficult to manufacture in bulk or too expensive, then subjectively I think your product isn't that great at all.
- keiferski 4y ago
  Of course good is a multi-axis measure. This is obvious. Do you really expect someone to write a full theory of aesthetics in a HN comment?
  - cryptonector 4y ago
    Maybe not a full theory, but why not flesh things out a bit here, or else link to your papers or blog posts on the matter? Or if you're not an expert on aesthetics, maybe link to the work of someone who is.
  - blurri 4y ago
    Ah so leave it to the experts who can't explain it without a "full theory of aesthetics".
cryptonector 4y ago
What a straw man. No one who "is not an expert on taste" says all the restaurants taste the same and it's all just subjective". Well, ok, maybe people who literally can't taste (I know one such person), but the people who can taste don't ever say anything like that. Most of us don't actually use restaurant guides, and we don't say "wow that was awesome" unironically when we didn't like it but the "experts" told us otherwise. Aesthetics is fairly subjective, yes.