4 ms·

Reminds me of the Parisian art critic who was appalled when they built a modernist colossus that destroyed the beautiful harmony of his home city. The rest of h

by pavlov 4y ago

Reminds me of the Parisian art critic who was appalled when they built a modernist colossus that destroyed the beautiful harmony of his home city. The rest of his life he would scrupulously choose walking routes to avoid seeing the monstrosity. The building in question was the Eiffel Tower.

sbaiddn 4y ago
Which is a monstrosity.
- itsyaboi 4y ago
  a* monstrosity Use "an" only if the following word starts with a vowel (with few exceptions) -> "The Eiffel Tower is an abomination".
  - sbaiddn 4y ago
    Right.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Technically "if it's pronounced as though starting with a vowel", so "an hour" or "an X-ray" but "a utility". For some acronyms both are possible: a/an FAQ.
keiferski 4y ago
I'm not sure anyone thinks the Eiffel Tower is a masterpiece of beauty. More like a hyper-marketized symbol of Paris. And frankly the area would probably be nicer if it wasn't there at all.
- pixl97 4y ago
  Ah, but now you've delved off into opinions. I'd have to say the article itself is just a gigantic opinion piece. Ugly is the wrong word. Conformity is. If you consider conformity ugly, you will see it as ugly, if you do not, it will not be ugly. It's all subjective.
  - keiferski 4y ago
    No, I don’t think it’s just “all subjective” or “that’s just your opinion, man”, but actually discussing aesthetic topics to a deeper level requires more expertise and has less immediate implications (than say, civil engineering) that people are just content to be intellectually lazy about it.
    - Kukumber 4y ago
      oh right, "you are not an artist or an engineer therefore you can't understand my biased opinion that prevails" "it's ugly" is a very compelling argumentation i think there is a difference between the Eiffel Tower and the random office building in the middle of Roma
      - keiferski 4y ago
        No? I didn't say that my opinion was right, just that most people aren't willing to do the work in order to have a deeper discussion on the topic, so they just revert to relativism. I also didn't say the Eiffel Tower was ugly, I said most people don't think it's an exemplar of beauty, even those that like it.
    - cryptonector 4y ago
      "Leave opinion on aesthetics to the experts"?
      - keiferski 4y ago
        That's what functionally happens, yes. If most people revert to an opinion of "well that's just your opinion, it's all entirely subjective," then the people driving what actually gets valued are the ones that bother to educate themselves and be deemed as experts. To use an example: if a person in New York City said that "all the restaurants taste the same and it's all just subjective," would you buy a dining tour guide book from them? Or would you buy a book from someone that has made an effort to understand what makes a restaurant good or not?
- cdrini 4y ago
  Responded here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179
epolanski 4y ago
I don't think most think of the Eiffel Tower as something beautiful. It's iconic and arguably the symbol of Paris, but it's not really something you would think of when thinking of architectural or functional beauty.
- cdrini 4y ago
  Responded here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179
- nemo44x 4y ago
  > It's iconic and arguably the symbol of Paris, but it's not really something you would think of when thinking of architectural or functional beauty. It's an amazing structure and nothing like that was possible before. Only after the construction of it could people get a view of Paris never before possible. You should read Robert Hughes' book "The Shock of the New" or watch the series. I think it's online on Youtube. It begins with the Eiffel Tower as the starting point and centerpiece of modernism and works through to the modern day to see how art and architecture have evolved for better and worse. It may give you a new appreciation for the structure within the context of history.
  - epolanski 4y ago
    > It's an amazing structure and nothing like that was possible before. That doesn't make it beautiful but an engineering feat.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
      I mean, sure - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a beautiful structure. It has so much intellectually beauty as well as physical IMO. It's a perfect contrast to the rest of Paris.
cdrini 4y ago
Wow, I'm blown away people here are confidently saying things like "most people don't think the Eiffel Tower is beautiful." Huh? Are you guys joking? Are these comments generated by GPT? It's beautiful because of its geometry. It's beautiful in the way it compliments the city. It's beautiful when it's lit up at night. What more do you want exactly? Who would have the gall to say something like "most people" don't think it's beautiful? People on hacker news really are opinionated about everything, aren't they.
- keiferski 4y ago
  Instead of being outraged, I suggest you read the comments again. No one said it is ugly or that it isn't beautiful, just that it's not typically thought of as an example of "a beautiful thing." People think of it as a symbol of Paris, not an exemplar of beauty. Especially people that live in Paris and see it everyday.
  - rrreese 4y ago
    A comment made two hours before yours literally calls it a monstrosity
    - mcphage 4y ago
      One of the best passages in Foucault's Pendulum is when the main character wanders Paris and describes the tour as a "foul metal spider", "Lone suppository, hollow obelisk, Magnificat of wire, apotheosis of the battery, aerial altar of an idolatrous cult, bee in the heart of the rose of the winds, piteous ruin, hideous night-colored colossus, misshapen emblem of useless strength...". It goes on for quite a while. Mind you, the character is half insane and entirely paranoid at that point. It's quite a fun monologue.
  - cdrini 4y ago
    I'm not outraged, just surprised at how confidently people will say statements that are near impossible to justify. Eg the Eiffel Tower "is not typically thought of as an example of 'a beautiful thing'". ... What?? Citation needed? Did you conduct a survey? Why do you think you know what most people think? And to state it just as a fact. When, opposite that discussion is the fact that it's one of the most internationally recognized buildings _ever_ -- to confidently say that none of those people see it as "a beautiful thing" and only as a symbol of Paris?? I'm perplexed :P I don't even a little bit follow your logic.
david927 4y ago
The famous French author Guy de Maupassant hated the Eiffel Tower so much that he ate lunch exclusively in the restaurant there because "it was the place in Paris where you couldn't see the Eiffel Tower." It's beautiful in many way, certainly iconic and has grandfathered its way into our idea of Paris, but I understand Maupassant and I think if they built it today, I would feel the same way.
eiffelthelang 4y ago
During the last election, a (arguably fringe) far-right candidate had in his platform the destruction of the Eiffel tower. It is a modernist monstrosity.

by pavlov 4y ago

sbaiddn 4y ago

Which is a monstrosity.

itsyaboi 4y ago
a* monstrosity Use "an" only if the following word starts with a vowel (with few exceptions) -> "The Eiffel Tower is an abomination".
- sbaiddn 4y ago
  Right.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Technically "if it's pronounced as though starting with a vowel", so "an hour" or "an X-ray" but "a utility". For some acronyms both are possible: a/an FAQ.

keiferski 4y ago

I'm not sure anyone thinks the Eiffel Tower is a masterpiece of beauty. More like a hyper-marketized symbol of Paris. And frankly the area would probably be nicer if it wasn't there at all.

pixl97 4y ago
Ah, but now you've delved off into opinions. I'd have to say the article itself is just a gigantic opinion piece. Ugly is the wrong word. Conformity is. If you consider conformity ugly, you will see it as ugly, if you do not, it will not be ugly. It's all subjective.
- keiferski 4y ago
  No, I don’t think it’s just “all subjective” or “that’s just your opinion, man”, but actually discussing aesthetic topics to a deeper level requires more expertise and has less immediate implications (than say, civil engineering) that people are just content to be intellectually lazy about it.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    oh right, "you are not an artist or an engineer therefore you can't understand my biased opinion that prevails" "it's ugly" is a very compelling argumentation i think there is a difference between the Eiffel Tower and the random office building in the middle of Roma
    - keiferski 4y ago
      No? I didn't say that my opinion was right, just that most people aren't willing to do the work in order to have a deeper discussion on the topic, so they just revert to relativism. I also didn't say the Eiffel Tower was ugly, I said most people don't think it's an exemplar of beauty, even those that like it.
  - cryptonector 4y ago
    "Leave opinion on aesthetics to the experts"?
    - keiferski 4y ago
      That's what functionally happens, yes. If most people revert to an opinion of "well that's just your opinion, it's all entirely subjective," then the people driving what actually gets valued are the ones that bother to educate themselves and be deemed as experts. To use an example: if a person in New York City said that "all the restaurants taste the same and it's all just subjective," would you buy a dining tour guide book from them? Or would you buy a book from someone that has made an effort to understand what makes a restaurant good or not?
cdrini 4y ago
Responded here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179

epolanski 4y ago

I don't think most think of the Eiffel Tower as something beautiful. It's iconic and arguably the symbol of Paris, but it's not really something you would think of when thinking of architectural or functional beauty.

cdrini 4y ago
Responded here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896179
nemo44x 4y ago
> It's iconic and arguably the symbol of Paris, but it's not really something you would think of when thinking of architectural or functional beauty. It's an amazing structure and nothing like that was possible before. Only after the construction of it could people get a view of Paris never before possible. You should read Robert Hughes' book "The Shock of the New" or watch the series. I think it's online on Youtube. It begins with the Eiffel Tower as the starting point and centerpiece of modernism and works through to the modern day to see how art and architecture have evolved for better and worse. It may give you a new appreciation for the structure within the context of history.
- epolanski 4y ago
  > It's an amazing structure and nothing like that was possible before. That doesn't make it beautiful but an engineering feat.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    I mean, sure - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a beautiful structure. It has so much intellectually beauty as well as physical IMO. It's a perfect contrast to the rest of Paris.

cdrini 4y ago

Wow, I'm blown away people here are confidently saying things like "most people don't think the Eiffel Tower is beautiful." Huh? Are you guys joking? Are these comments generated by GPT? It's beautiful because of its geometry. It's beautiful in the way it compliments the city. It's beautiful when it's lit up at night. What more do you want exactly? Who would have the gall to say something like "most people" don't think it's beautiful? People on hacker news really are opinionated about everything, aren't they.

keiferski 4y ago
Instead of being outraged, I suggest you read the comments again. No one said it is ugly or that it isn't beautiful, just that it's not typically thought of as an example of "a beautiful thing." People think of it as a symbol of Paris, not an exemplar of beauty. Especially people that live in Paris and see it everyday.
- rrreese 4y ago
  A comment made two hours before yours literally calls it a monstrosity
  - mcphage 4y ago
    One of the best passages in Foucault's Pendulum is when the main character wanders Paris and describes the tour as a "foul metal spider", "Lone suppository, hollow obelisk, Magnificat of wire, apotheosis of the battery, aerial altar of an idolatrous cult, bee in the heart of the rose of the winds, piteous ruin, hideous night-colored colossus, misshapen emblem of useless strength...". It goes on for quite a while. Mind you, the character is half insane and entirely paranoid at that point. It's quite a fun monologue.
- cdrini 4y ago
  I'm not outraged, just surprised at how confidently people will say statements that are near impossible to justify. Eg the Eiffel Tower "is not typically thought of as an example of 'a beautiful thing'". ... What?? Citation needed? Did you conduct a survey? Why do you think you know what most people think? And to state it just as a fact. When, opposite that discussion is the fact that it's one of the most internationally recognized buildings _ever_ -- to confidently say that none of those people see it as "a beautiful thing" and only as a symbol of Paris?? I'm perplexed :P I don't even a little bit follow your logic.

david927 4y ago

The famous French author Guy de Maupassant hated the Eiffel Tower so much that he ate lunch exclusively in the restaurant there because "it was the place in Paris where you couldn't see the Eiffel Tower." It's beautiful in many way, certainly iconic and has grandfathered its way into our idea of Paris, but I understand Maupassant and I think if they built it today, I would feel the same way.

eiffelthelang 4y ago

During the last election, a (arguably fringe) far-right candidate had in his platform the destruction of the Eiffel tower. It is a modernist monstrosity.