4 ms·
I found the author's pointed lack of bothering to ask about pronouns when the subject of their investigation posts under different ly gendered pseudonyms; use o
by throwaway346434 4y ago
I found the author's pointed lack of bothering to ask about pronouns when the subject of their investigation posts under different ly gendered pseudonyms; use of the words "normal people" and infiltrating a group only to neg them to be more problematic than anything.
The subject of the article might be a real shitheel. But the author doesnt do us any favours by cloaking themselves in being a Voice of the Normal while being themselves a shitheel.
- jacooper 4y ago> lack of bothering to ask about pronouns Because no body actually cares, no body will use your made up pronouns. > use of the words "normal people" and infiltrating a group only to neg them to be more problematic than anything. Isn't it obvious that the people in this group are clearly not normal?, they even admit themselves!
- tetrep 4y agoHow are peoples' names less made up than their pronouns? It seems just as rude to refuse to use someone's preferred name as you would their preferred pronouns.
- throwayyy479087 4y agoOutside of a small set of Twitter/Tumblr/TikTok bubbles (which overlap in userbase), pronouns are fixed: he/she/they (rarely they). Xe/Xir is not something average people will honor or use.
- bloak 4y agoI mostly agree with that: if someone is a participant or a potential participant in the conversation then we should refer to them in a way they find acceptable, provided their demands are reasonable and in good faith. On the other hand, if someone is speaking or writing about me in a language I don't understand then it's hardly my job to tell them what pronouns to use and I can't even reasonably tell them how to pronounce, and perhaps decline, my name. (Try looking up some internationally famous people in the Latvian or Lithuanian Wikipedias. Obviously I'm not famous enough to be in there, but if I were, would I have any right to be treated differently from Rišī Sūneks?) A journalist writing about someone they've interviewed ... as part of doing the best they can for the people they serve, the readers, perhaps in some cases it's reasonable for them to ignore the preferences of the interviewee?
- throwaway346434 4y agoMy problem is the author deliberately states they didnt bother to ask, and does so in a way that is almost bragging about it. Through the article, this happens in various forms. If the point of the article is to criticise someone's behaviour for being an "internet cool person"; opening by your opinion piece by stating you were too cool to bother to do something; and later stating that you as the writer are a normal person, and that you feel sick after infilitrating a group, there is a level of hypocrisy there. I agree with you there are legitimate cases for ignoring someone's preferences to improve the quality of information imparted. However, the author doesnt state any apart from "didnt bother".
- rhino369 4y agoCustomized personal pronouns are just another name. They lose all value if they are high customizable. I get why people don't want to misgendered. But making up a new pronoun comes across as aggressive attention seeking.
- bitwize 4y ago> Because no body actually cares, no body will use your made up pronouns. This is why some transgender and nonbinary people have stopped trying to reason with their friends and family about their gender identity, and have resorted to clicker-training them like dogs to use the appropriate pronouns and pay them basic human respect and dignity.
- bdowling 4y ago> clicker-training them like dogs to use the appropriate pronouns In my experience, this “clicker-training” consists of childishly threatening to kill themselves if others don’t give them what they want.
- bitwize 4y agoI meant actual clicker training, with the clickers they use to train dogs. It's ridiculous, but so is the lack of respect shown when people stubbornly refuse to use the correct pronouns. There are probably more genderqueer people out there whose families wish them dead, than there are ones who try to manipulate their families by "childishly threatening to kill themselves". I'm reminded of the fragilely masculine fulminating about false rape accusations when so many actual rapists never even get reported.
- fgyj 4y agoI think he is referring to this absurdity: https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1598111269953089536 https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1598111269953089536 It's a video of a girl who demands to be referred to as "they" for whatever fashionable reason, and has decided to use a dog-training clicker to remind her family members of this imposition whenever they use "she" as they normally would.
- mechanical_bear 4y agoSee also: How to get tossed from family gatherings in three easy steps.
- jacooper 4y ago
- fleddr 4y agoOutside a college campus in California, nowhere else in the world do people ask for pronouns when they meet a person. It's not a normal human interaction.
- ClassyJacket 4y ago
- jacooper 4y agoPush back.
- hooverd 4y agoI do find it funny when people go out of their way to use the wrong pronouns.
- jacooper 4y agoAnd I find it funny that people get offended if I dont break language rules for them.
- wizzwizz4 4y agoThere's a fun game I like to play with people who talk about Language Rules: they tell me the construction they think is "ungrammatical", and I show them a well-respected author who uses that construction. Starting sentences with conjunctions, splitting infinitives, and the Oxford Comma Debate are easy mode; I can normally find an example in any given book. It's a bit harder with pronoun use – that's a per-work thing, not a per-paragraph one; and it's single words, so I can't cheat with a search engine – but I haven't lost yet. Want to play?
- bitwize 4y agoSingular "they" predates singular "you".
- boppo1 4y agoThe only real way out is solitude.