4 ms·

I'm happy with the fact that I need to pay for advertisement. It has always been the case, and if it can boost my sales, that's still a win. However I'm not ha

by aspyct 4y ago

I'm happy with the fact that I need to pay for advertisement. It has always been the case, and if it can boost my sales, that's still a win. However I'm not happy with the fact that if you don't pay ads (or want to conform to shitty content formats), then you have zero visibility. But then again, it has always been the case, even before social media or www existed. What I certainly can't endorse is fb's use of our personal data that they collect without our consent. For example the local broadcasts they do on wifi networks to figure out who else is around (yes, it's a thing, or was at least, I've seen it). Screw you facebook.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
not everyone agrees that your capital allows you to deserve our attention
- zdragnar 4y ago
  People have been demanding your attention to sell you things since people had things to sell - vendors shouting out from market stalls to storefront displays to door to door sales to newsprint, radio and television ads. Getting your attention has literally always been a part of selling things.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    One might be tempted to wonder how a communist or at least strongly government-regulated economy would fare. When you have only one supermarket chain, for example, why do advertising at all? Why have dozens of variations of the same products, just with different brands, assaulting your eyes the whole time you walk through a supermarket? Or worse, not just our eyes but also our ears with "store radio" yelling at us to try the new novelty super-soft toilet paper? That is maybe the worst side effect of the USSR collapse: once the counter-example went away, capitalism had free rein in going as excessive as it wanted, because the alternative (not being blared at by ads all the time) simply didn't exist any more. We literally can't imagine such a place any more... it reminds me of 1984, with the difference that we don't lack the words to describe that, instead we know that without a worldwide revolution, there will be no realistic way of turning the wheels.
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      The USSR had tons of advertising. Instead of a product, it was pitching the government. Instead of advertising, it was called agitprop. Instead of 12 kinds of toilet paper, you were lucky to have any to pick from. If you wanted furniture, or a car, or any other big ticket purchase, you'd have a years long wait (I've seen others mention 10 years to get a car) to get your order fulfilled. I'll be honest, nostalgia for the glories of command economy USSR is not really what I expected to see today when I woke up.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        The USSR was all but glory, I agree, and yet it kept rabid capitalism in the West in check.
- aspyct 4y ago
  I never said that. However my capital - acquired through hard work - affords me a way to at least show you my offer. Whether it retains your attention is up to you.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    Dumb myth that capital and hard work have any connection at scale. You’re suggesting the power to control attention is earned through merit or labor (or making a “not all” argument) which is obnoxiously wrong
    - aspyct 4y ago
      Again, I never said that. Simply replying to your snarky remark and trying to remind you that I'm a human too and what you call angrily my "capital" is basically my savings I worked hard for myself. Can you please stop interpreting what I say as if I were some kind of surveillance asshole? Look, I hate surveillance as much as the next guy, but I have a one man show business I believe in, and ads are the only effective way for me to tell the world about my services. That's all.
      - wahnfrieden 4y ago
        sorry, I meant to comment on politics rather than your individual situation - I have no grudge against you as an individual, best of luck with your business
        aspyct 4y ago
        Thanks!
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> I'm not happy with the fact that if you don't pay ads...then you have zero visibility Plenty of businesses manage without advertising. They market precisely. Advertising is ideal for mass-produced B2C. But not every business needs to play the numbers game.
- aspyct 4y ago
  I disagree. My target market is fairly small and well defined. Probably a couple thousand people in a small region of my country. Also I am definitely not selling a mass produced item. In fact I'll spend at least 4 hours for each customer. But they don't all talk to each other, and I don't get to meet them in person before the sale. Also, they are unlikely to require my services more than once a year, if at all. How would you suggest I let them know about my services? You could say they will look me up, but they don't. In fact, they sometimes don't even know they need the service. It's only when it's too late that they realise they needed it. But it's too late. And even if they look someone up for the service, others are paying for ads. So unless I do it too, I never show up. So yeah, ads.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > How would you suggest I let them know about my services? I’m not saying ads are the wrong solution. Just that they aren’t the only one. Depending on your market, salespeople, trade shows, sponsorships and PR could be valid alternatives (or complements).
    - aspyct 4y ago
      All of those alternatives are a ton more expensive. At my scale, I can't afford them, except sponsorships, but that typically doesn't bring clients long term.
  - greyface- 4y ago
    > You could say they will look me up, but they don't. In fact, they sometimes don't even know they need the service. Sounds like they're doing just fine without it, then. In what sense do they 'need' your services?

by aspyct 4y ago

wahnfrieden 4y ago

not everyone agrees that your capital allows you to deserve our attention

zdragnar 4y ago
People have been demanding your attention to sell you things since people had things to sell - vendors shouting out from market stalls to storefront displays to door to door sales to newsprint, radio and television ads. Getting your attention has literally always been a part of selling things.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  One might be tempted to wonder how a communist or at least strongly government-regulated economy would fare. When you have only one supermarket chain, for example, why do advertising at all? Why have dozens of variations of the same products, just with different brands, assaulting your eyes the whole time you walk through a supermarket? Or worse, not just our eyes but also our ears with "store radio" yelling at us to try the new novelty super-soft toilet paper? That is maybe the worst side effect of the USSR collapse: once the counter-example went away, capitalism had free rein in going as excessive as it wanted, because the alternative (not being blared at by ads all the time) simply didn't exist any more. We literally can't imagine such a place any more... it reminds me of 1984, with the difference that we don't lack the words to describe that, instead we know that without a worldwide revolution, there will be no realistic way of turning the wheels.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    The USSR had tons of advertising. Instead of a product, it was pitching the government. Instead of advertising, it was called agitprop. Instead of 12 kinds of toilet paper, you were lucky to have any to pick from. If you wanted furniture, or a car, or any other big ticket purchase, you'd have a years long wait (I've seen others mention 10 years to get a car) to get your order fulfilled. I'll be honest, nostalgia for the glories of command economy USSR is not really what I expected to see today when I woke up.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      The USSR was all but glory, I agree, and yet it kept rabid capitalism in the West in check.
aspyct 4y ago
I never said that. However my capital - acquired through hard work - affords me a way to at least show you my offer. Whether it retains your attention is up to you.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  Dumb myth that capital and hard work have any connection at scale. You’re suggesting the power to control attention is earned through merit or labor (or making a “not all” argument) which is obnoxiously wrong
  - aspyct 4y ago
    Again, I never said that. Simply replying to your snarky remark and trying to remind you that I'm a human too and what you call angrily my "capital" is basically my savings I worked hard for myself. Can you please stop interpreting what I say as if I were some kind of surveillance asshole? Look, I hate surveillance as much as the next guy, but I have a one man show business I believe in, and ads are the only effective way for me to tell the world about my services. That's all.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      sorry, I meant to comment on politics rather than your individual situation - I have no grudge against you as an individual, best of luck with your business
      - aspyct 4y ago
        Thanks!

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> I'm not happy with the fact that if you don't pay ads...then you have zero visibility Plenty of businesses manage without advertising. They market precisely. Advertising is ideal for mass-produced B2C. But not every business needs to play the numbers game.

aspyct 4y ago
I disagree. My target market is fairly small and well defined. Probably a couple thousand people in a small region of my country. Also I am definitely not selling a mass produced item. In fact I'll spend at least 4 hours for each customer. But they don't all talk to each other, and I don't get to meet them in person before the sale. Also, they are unlikely to require my services more than once a year, if at all. How would you suggest I let them know about my services? You could say they will look me up, but they don't. In fact, they sometimes don't even know they need the service. It's only when it's too late that they realise they needed it. But it's too late. And even if they look someone up for the service, others are paying for ads. So unless I do it too, I never show up. So yeah, ads.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > How would you suggest I let them know about my services? I’m not saying ads are the wrong solution. Just that they aren’t the only one. Depending on your market, salespeople, trade shows, sponsorships and PR could be valid alternatives (or complements).
  - aspyct 4y ago
    All of those alternatives are a ton more expensive. At my scale, I can't afford them, except sponsorships, but that typically doesn't bring clients long term.
- greyface- 4y ago
  > You could say they will look me up, but they don't. In fact, they sometimes don't even know they need the service. Sounds like they're doing just fine without it, then. In what sense do they 'need' your services?