5 ms·

I'm sure everyone here knows, but just posting to make sure no one misses out. Please don't use Vivaldi. It is a closed source browser [1], and as such we have

I'm sure everyone here knows, but just posting to make sure no one misses out. Please don't use Vivaldi. It is a closed source browser [1], and as such we have no way of validating they have not put backdoors, spyware, telemetrics to send private details such as your bank details, website logins, Google account, etc. Stick with open source browsers, who's code is verifiable, especially for something as important as a web browser. [1] https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser...

pornel 4y ago
Remember that Chrome is also closed-source. You can't build Chrome from source, and you can't check whether Google hasn't added anything nefarious on top of Chromium (and they do, at very least the DRM).
- fernandotakai 4y ago
  imho you should not use chrome either. chrome being the most used browser is bad for the web. (i, myself, use firefox and will never use something else as long as firefox is being updated).
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    I'm Firefox on everything too. I also have Chrome installed if it becomes needed, but it really is quite rare that I have to ask it to lumber to life.
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  I'm fairness, I don't see the OP advocating for Chrome, either.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bilekas 4y ago
Is this still applicable as there are source archives here : https://vivaldi.com/source/ https://vivaldi.com/source/ I don't use Vivaldi, and have no interest in the Mastodon for now, but they were smart enough to change their use agent in order to have further compatibility, that actually triggered a market share loss on paper. https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-2-10-no-strings-attached-2/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-2-10-no-strings-attached-2/ Would be interested to hear if anyone uses Vivaldi and how it is.
- hobo_mark 4y ago
  The source is incomplete, you cannot build the browser from it, it's just there for licence compliance. Anyhow, it's just chrome with extra stuff you can disable (email client? rss reader?) and extra stuff I cannot imagine living without (side panels). https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/panels/web-panels/ https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/panels/web-panels/ I do not understand why no other browser has the ability to keep a predefined list of pages always open to the side, especially for real-time communication.
  - jraph 4y ago
    If you pin tabs, they'll be loaded on start and stay until you close them. Always in sight even if you have a lot of tabs. At least on Firefox. It seems like this would almost perfectly act as a "predefined list of pages always open to the side, especially for real-time communication" or did I miss something? It won't be next to the page, but always visible at the top-left and kept between restarts.
    - hobo_mark 4y ago
      I know pinned tabs, I pin the music tab, it plays in the background, I never have to look at it, cool. The point of having slack/mattermost/discord/whatever always on the side is that one does not have to switch away from the main tab just to see what's going on.
  - igemnace 4y ago
    A lot of features Vivaldi has are definitely "nice-to-have" level, especially stuff they seemingly put in for fun like Philips Hue integration. But there are some very functional settings I use that I just miss in every other browser. Most notable for me are: - extremely (at least relative to Chrome or Firefox) configurable keyboard shortcuts - easily editable search engines (you have to enable this with an about:config parameter that isn't default -- not that it's turned off by default, but that it's a parameter you have to know about beforehand and add yourself to the list) And it's Chromium, so you get Chromium extensions such as uBlock Origin, which is why I stuck with it over qutebrowser (which also has configurable keyboard shortcuts) even though it's closed source. I loved Vivaldi. It has the spirit of Opera, where it's all about giving power users options instead of streamlining them away for UX (which is still an option you can have with Vivaldi!). I use Firefox now -- Manifest v3 was the last straw -- but I lament the loss of configurability in some areas.
yardie 4y ago
Most of the world is closed source and if the only reason to not use Vivaldi is because it is not open source well that isn't a very compelling reason at all. Most of the planet is using some form of closed source web browser the top 3 being Chrome, Safari, or Edge.
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  Well, no, it can be a compelling reason and the world can still mostly run closed source browsers. Those ideas are not in conflict. Twenty years ago if you said "don't run closed source operating systems" people would've popped out of the woodwork and said the same thing. Twenty years later, a huge chunk of the world runs on an open source OS.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  I suppose a lot depends on how we define 'world' and 'open source'. Still, there is an argument to be had ( and what FSF advocates ) about benefits of open software. "Closed source" is absolutely a compelling reason and, from where I sit, companies and organizations across the globe have shown time and again that they simply cannot be trusted and will engage in 'goodwill withdrawal' when convenient. << Most of the planet is using some form of closed source web browser the top 3 being Chrome, Safari, or Edge. Sadly, I personally believe popularity is a bad reason to advocate for technology. I kinda buy your argument that 'closed source' is not inherently bad ( edit: but it does require trust hence my first paragraph ).
- tssva 4y ago
  I use a closed source browser but I don't use Vivaldi because it's slow, drains the battery on my laptop at an incredible rate and I find the UI to be less than enjoyable.
webmobdev 4y ago
Opera (the European one) was a decent company, and much, much more ethical than Google or Apple (in not using weasel words, and false assurance to data mine your personal data). The founder sold Opera (a really big mistake in my opinion) and started Vivaldi browser with a Chromium base. I'd still trust Vivaldi over Google and Apple anytime. That said, it is disappointing that their browser always phones home (and to Google too, last I remember) and they do not give you an option to disable that (unless you use some powerful application firewall), and so I avoid it. And Vivaldi still has miles to go before it can even barely touch the innovations that happened at Opera.
- lucideer 4y ago
  > The founder sold Opera A nit-pick, but not entirely true. The set of events was: founder stepped aside from the board due to disagreements on direction, eventually resigned from the company, then (a good while later) the board opted to sell the company. Perhaps the big mistake was the founder not taking as much of a bdfl approach to management as many do. Maybe. Who's to say. > I avoid it. And Vivaldi still has miles to go before it can even barely touch the innovations that happened at Opera. It's a long way off, and I swore I'd never trust closed-source again after the Presto project was lost. But given the current landscape (& growing misgivings[0] with Firefox management), Vivaldi is looking more and more tempting by the day. [0] https://infosec.exchange/@edgalligan/109445234681947348 https://infosec.exchange/@edgalligan/109445234681947348
  - webmobdev 4y ago
    If I recall right, the founder was involved in the fiasco to abandon Presto in favour of Blink. I remember one of the reason he cited in defence for this is that Presto couldn't keep up with the increasing number of popular, broken websites they needed to support in "quirks" mode / compatibility mode (or something like that) and working with Google on Blink would really help with that. So I don't think he is entirely blameless. (But there's also the fact that all businessmen, especially new one, also make honest mistakes). It's a pity that Vivaldi doesn't see the business potential in building another new browser engine. With Mozilla making Firefox an adware crap, I think Vivaldi may even be able to get half a million dollar in online funding for the promise of another open source browser engine. Projects like Netsurf and SerenityOS browser already have done half the work and just need an experienced and talented leadership to give them momentum and Vivaldi can certainly provide that ... Even Webkit is quite decent and just needs a multi-platform push.
euix 4y ago
In that case, what is the alternative? Chromium is so nice to use it's hard to get away.
- exlurker 4y ago
  I like Ungoogled Chromium: https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/ https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-bina... At least for testing, I use Firefox as my daily driver.
- wintermutestwin 4y ago
  Chromium browsers lack side tabs and horizontal tabs make zero sense. I believe that Firefox (and its derivatives) is the only option which is open source. (yes there are a few vertical tab extensions for Chrome, but they are all incredibly lame as they do it by injecting an iframe into each webpage (!!))
  - return_to_monke 4y ago
    I actually like Vivaldi's "tab grouping" feature better than tree side vertical tabs. I use Firefox tho, because I don't want to give chrom* based browsers any more market share
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  Firefox still exists and is still great. So far rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated.
oxff 4y ago
I use Vivaldi because it simply has more the features in a better package than these open source browsers. Maybe some day Firefox stops fucking around with and just starts stealing UX features from Edge and Vivaldi so I come back, but for now I can't start using it.
seqastian 4y ago
Firefox > Vivaldi > Brave > Edge > Chrome yet everyone is still using Chrome.. (written on DuckDuckGo browser)
- elforce002 4y ago
  I use Brave daily (browser + search) and it's really good. I can't live without shebangs anymore.
  - tristan957 4y ago
    DuckDuckGo has shebangs too fyi.
LinAGKar 4y ago
It's a shame it's proprietary, because it's the most configurable and feature rich browser I know of, and the only one that could possibly replace Firefox. As it is, I have it around for the rare things that don't work in Firefox, such as Teams meetings.

pornel 4y ago

Remember that Chrome is also closed-source. You can't build Chrome from source, and you can't check whether Google hasn't added anything nefarious on top of Chromium (and they do, at very least the DRM).

fernandotakai 4y ago
imho you should not use chrome either. chrome being the most used browser is bad for the web. (i, myself, use firefox and will never use something else as long as firefox is being updated).
- Fatnino 4y ago
  I'm Firefox on everything too. I also have Chrome installed if it becomes needed, but it really is quite rare that I have to ask it to lumber to life.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
I'm fairness, I don't see the OP advocating for Chrome, either.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bilekas 4y ago

Is this still applicable as there are source archives here : https://vivaldi.com/source/ https://vivaldi.com/source/ I don't use Vivaldi, and have no interest in the Mastodon for now, but they were smart enough to change their use agent in order to have further compatibility, that actually triggered a market share loss on paper. https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-2-10-no-strings-attached-2/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-2-10-no-strings-attached-2/ Would be interested to hear if anyone uses Vivaldi and how it is.

hobo_mark 4y ago
The source is incomplete, you cannot build the browser from it, it's just there for licence compliance. Anyhow, it's just chrome with extra stuff you can disable (email client? rss reader?) and extra stuff I cannot imagine living without (side panels). https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/panels/web-panels/ https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/panels/web-panels/ I do not understand why no other browser has the ability to keep a predefined list of pages always open to the side, especially for real-time communication.
- jraph 4y ago
  If you pin tabs, they'll be loaded on start and stay until you close them. Always in sight even if you have a lot of tabs. At least on Firefox. It seems like this would almost perfectly act as a "predefined list of pages always open to the side, especially for real-time communication" or did I miss something? It won't be next to the page, but always visible at the top-left and kept between restarts.
  - hobo_mark 4y ago
    I know pinned tabs, I pin the music tab, it plays in the background, I never have to look at it, cool. The point of having slack/mattermost/discord/whatever always on the side is that one does not have to switch away from the main tab just to see what's going on.
- igemnace 4y ago
  A lot of features Vivaldi has are definitely "nice-to-have" level, especially stuff they seemingly put in for fun like Philips Hue integration. But there are some very functional settings I use that I just miss in every other browser. Most notable for me are: - extremely (at least relative to Chrome or Firefox) configurable keyboard shortcuts - easily editable search engines (you have to enable this with an about:config parameter that isn't default -- not that it's turned off by default, but that it's a parameter you have to know about beforehand and add yourself to the list) And it's Chromium, so you get Chromium extensions such as uBlock Origin, which is why I stuck with it over qutebrowser (which also has configurable keyboard shortcuts) even though it's closed source. I loved Vivaldi. It has the spirit of Opera, where it's all about giving power users options instead of streamlining them away for UX (which is still an option you can have with Vivaldi!). I use Firefox now -- Manifest v3 was the last straw -- but I lament the loss of configurability in some areas.

yardie 4y ago

Most of the world is closed source and if the only reason to not use Vivaldi is because it is not open source well that isn't a very compelling reason at all. Most of the planet is using some form of closed source web browser the top 3 being Chrome, Safari, or Edge.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago
Well, no, it can be a compelling reason and the world can still mostly run closed source browsers. Those ideas are not in conflict. Twenty years ago if you said "don't run closed source operating systems" people would've popped out of the woodwork and said the same thing. Twenty years later, a huge chunk of the world runs on an open source OS.
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
I suppose a lot depends on how we define 'world' and 'open source'. Still, there is an argument to be had ( and what FSF advocates ) about benefits of open software. "Closed source" is absolutely a compelling reason and, from where I sit, companies and organizations across the globe have shown time and again that they simply cannot be trusted and will engage in 'goodwill withdrawal' when convenient. << Most of the planet is using some form of closed source web browser the top 3 being Chrome, Safari, or Edge. Sadly, I personally believe popularity is a bad reason to advocate for technology. I kinda buy your argument that 'closed source' is not inherently bad ( edit: but it does require trust hence my first paragraph ).
tssva 4y ago
I use a closed source browser but I don't use Vivaldi because it's slow, drains the battery on my laptop at an incredible rate and I find the UI to be less than enjoyable.

webmobdev 4y ago

Opera (the European one) was a decent company, and much, much more ethical than Google or Apple (in not using weasel words, and false assurance to data mine your personal data). The founder sold Opera (a really big mistake in my opinion) and started Vivaldi browser with a Chromium base. I'd still trust Vivaldi over Google and Apple anytime. That said, it is disappointing that their browser always phones home (and to Google too, last I remember) and they do not give you an option to disable that (unless you use some powerful application firewall), and so I avoid it. And Vivaldi still has miles to go before it can even barely touch the innovations that happened at Opera.

lucideer 4y ago
> The founder sold Opera A nit-pick, but not entirely true. The set of events was: founder stepped aside from the board due to disagreements on direction, eventually resigned from the company, then (a good while later) the board opted to sell the company. Perhaps the big mistake was the founder not taking as much of a bdfl approach to management as many do. Maybe. Who's to say. > I avoid it. And Vivaldi still has miles to go before it can even barely touch the innovations that happened at Opera. It's a long way off, and I swore I'd never trust closed-source again after the Presto project was lost. But given the current landscape (& growing misgivings[0] with Firefox management), Vivaldi is looking more and more tempting by the day. [0] https://infosec.exchange/@edgalligan/109445234681947348 https://infosec.exchange/@edgalligan/109445234681947348
- webmobdev 4y ago
  If I recall right, the founder was involved in the fiasco to abandon Presto in favour of Blink. I remember one of the reason he cited in defence for this is that Presto couldn't keep up with the increasing number of popular, broken websites they needed to support in "quirks" mode / compatibility mode (or something like that) and working with Google on Blink would really help with that. So I don't think he is entirely blameless. (But there's also the fact that all businessmen, especially new one, also make honest mistakes). It's a pity that Vivaldi doesn't see the business potential in building another new browser engine. With Mozilla making Firefox an adware crap, I think Vivaldi may even be able to get half a million dollar in online funding for the promise of another open source browser engine. Projects like Netsurf and SerenityOS browser already have done half the work and just need an experienced and talented leadership to give them momentum and Vivaldi can certainly provide that ... Even Webkit is quite decent and just needs a multi-platform push.

euix 4y ago

In that case, what is the alternative? Chromium is so nice to use it's hard to get away.

exlurker 4y ago
I like Ungoogled Chromium: https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/ https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-bina... At least for testing, I use Firefox as my daily driver.
wintermutestwin 4y ago
Chromium browsers lack side tabs and horizontal tabs make zero sense. I believe that Firefox (and its derivatives) is the only option which is open source. (yes there are a few vertical tab extensions for Chrome, but they are all incredibly lame as they do it by injecting an iframe into each webpage (!!))
- return_to_monke 4y ago
  I actually like Vivaldi's "tab grouping" feature better than tree side vertical tabs. I use Firefox tho, because I don't want to give chrom* based browsers any more market share
WorldMaker 4y ago
Firefox still exists and is still great. So far rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated.

oxff 4y ago

I use Vivaldi because it simply has more the features in a better package than these open source browsers. Maybe some day Firefox stops fucking around with and just starts stealing UX features from Edge and Vivaldi so I come back, but for now I can't start using it.

seqastian 4y ago

Firefox > Vivaldi > Brave > Edge > Chrome yet everyone is still using Chrome.. (written on DuckDuckGo browser)

elforce002 4y ago
I use Brave daily (browser + search) and it's really good. I can't live without shebangs anymore.
- tristan957 4y ago
  DuckDuckGo has shebangs too fyi.

LinAGKar 4y ago

It's a shame it's proprietary, because it's the most configurable and feature rich browser I know of, and the only one that could possibly replace Firefox. As it is, I have it around for the rare things that don't work in Firefox, such as Teams meetings.