13 ms·

Canada is also facing massive wait times. Plenty of people can't even get a family doctor, they simply aren't taking them any more. Manitoba is sending 300 sp

by refurb 4y ago

Canada is also facing massive wait times. Plenty of people can't even get a family doctor, they simply aren't taking them any more. Manitoba is sending 300 spinal surgery patients to North Dakota because they can't clear the backlog any other way. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-surgeries-north-dakota-fargo-wfpcbc-cbc-1.6319862 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-surgeries-n...

maxehmookau 4y ago
Sure. Under the US system, they "fix" this problem by pricing people out of the queues and they end up dying. I could reduce the demand for anything if I'm allowed to arbitrarily raise its price.
- refurb 4y ago
  So the alternative is apparently just the government enforcing a queue to the point people can't get the surgery they need? Is that better?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    Plenty of people already aren't getting the treatment they need under the US model, only difference will be that your access to treatment is not as directly correlated to your wealth.
    - refurb 4y ago
      That's not true since the lower income bands have Medicaid which is more generous than Canadian healthcare.
      - thephyber 4y ago
        > Medicaid which is more generous than Canadian healthcare You assume that Medicaid is accepted. It's increasingly difficult to find providers that will accept it. From 2015: > A 2011 nationwide survey of doctors found 31 percent were “unwilling” to accept new Medicaid patients, with acceptance rates across states varying widely. Across the nation, the study estimated 69 percent of doctors were accepting Medicaid, but state acceptance rates ranged from a low of 40 percent in New Jersey to 99 percent in Wyoming, according to the study published in Health Affairs. This was pre-ACA expansion and prior to any reimbursement fee changes.[1] > When comparing reimbursement rates among health insurance plans, Medicaid is the lowest payer, meaning it’s not a moneymaker for doctors’ offices. Paired with the administrative requirements of accepting public insurance, doctors sometimes just don’t want the hassle.[1] [1] https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-insurance/articles/2015/05/26/youve-got-medicaid-why-cant-you-see-the-doctor https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-insurance/artic...
Klinky 4y ago
I've faced long waits for care in the US. I've had my "high quality" for-profit insurance deny coverage or second guess my doctors. Any negative concern you have about Canada's system also exists in the US.
- refurb 4y ago
  I'm not sure you understand just how long the waits are in Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/patients-lives-ruined-as-hip-surgery-waits-grow-1.2976196 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/patients-liv... "Bennett was referred for surgery on her right hip in November of 2013 and said she’s been told she won’t get in until early in 2016. She said her joint has deteriorated so much she is unable to work or even function without strong narcotic painkillers." And you don't think the Canadian Medicare system denies coverage? Or second guesses doctors? It does.
  - Klinky 4y ago
    I am not sure you understand how often for-profit insurance just says "no". "despite a six-year span of growing literature and updated policies, nearly 1 in 5 patients diagnosed with FAI would still potentially be denied coverage. This highlights a continued divide between surgeons and insurance companies." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8259176/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8259176/ US insurance will also make you wait, mandating less costly treatments first, or have you go through a lengthy & convoluted appeals process to finally get covered. I didn't say Canada's health system doesn't have delays or rationing of care, only that the US health system is not superior, suffering from exactly the same concerns you bring up about Canada's health system, yet costing the US like 200% more, while chaining people to their employer.
    - refurb 4y ago
      What’s different between a private insurer saying no and the government? You realize the private US insurers say “yes” to things the Canadian government says “no”? https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4495123 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4495123 "Then I found out that this other country — which I thought had a healthcare system that was so superior to the U.S. — doesn't test for the tumour marker that saved my life, and doesn't cover this drug that is responsible for pushing my cancer into remission after traditional chemotherapy failed to do that."

by refurb 4y ago

maxehmookau 4y ago

Sure. Under the US system, they "fix" this problem by pricing people out of the queues and they end up dying. I could reduce the demand for anything if I'm allowed to arbitrarily raise its price.

refurb 4y ago
So the alternative is apparently just the government enforcing a queue to the point people can't get the surgery they need? Is that better?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Plenty of people already aren't getting the treatment they need under the US model, only difference will be that your access to treatment is not as directly correlated to your wealth.
  - refurb 4y ago
    That's not true since the lower income bands have Medicaid which is more generous than Canadian healthcare.
    - thephyber 4y ago
      > Medicaid which is more generous than Canadian healthcare You assume that Medicaid is accepted. It's increasingly difficult to find providers that will accept it. From 2015: > A 2011 nationwide survey of doctors found 31 percent were “unwilling” to accept new Medicaid patients, with acceptance rates across states varying widely. Across the nation, the study estimated 69 percent of doctors were accepting Medicaid, but state acceptance rates ranged from a low of 40 percent in New Jersey to 99 percent in Wyoming, according to the study published in Health Affairs. This was pre-ACA expansion and prior to any reimbursement fee changes.[1] > When comparing reimbursement rates among health insurance plans, Medicaid is the lowest payer, meaning it’s not a moneymaker for doctors’ offices. Paired with the administrative requirements of accepting public insurance, doctors sometimes just don’t want the hassle.[1] [1] https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-insurance/articles/2015/05/26/youve-got-medicaid-why-cant-you-see-the-doctor https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-insurance/artic...

Klinky 4y ago

I've faced long waits for care in the US. I've had my "high quality" for-profit insurance deny coverage or second guess my doctors. Any negative concern you have about Canada's system also exists in the US.

refurb 4y ago
I'm not sure you understand just how long the waits are in Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/patients-lives-ruined-as-hip-surgery-waits-grow-1.2976196 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/patients-liv... "Bennett was referred for surgery on her right hip in November of 2013 and said she’s been told she won’t get in until early in 2016. She said her joint has deteriorated so much she is unable to work or even function without strong narcotic painkillers." And you don't think the Canadian Medicare system denies coverage? Or second guesses doctors? It does.
- Klinky 4y ago
  I am not sure you understand how often for-profit insurance just says "no". "despite a six-year span of growing literature and updated policies, nearly 1 in 5 patients diagnosed with FAI would still potentially be denied coverage. This highlights a continued divide between surgeons and insurance companies." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8259176/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8259176/ US insurance will also make you wait, mandating less costly treatments first, or have you go through a lengthy & convoluted appeals process to finally get covered. I didn't say Canada's health system doesn't have delays or rationing of care, only that the US health system is not superior, suffering from exactly the same concerns you bring up about Canada's health system, yet costing the US like 200% more, while chaining people to their employer.
  - refurb 4y ago
    What’s different between a private insurer saying no and the government? You realize the private US insurers say “yes” to things the Canadian government says “no”? https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4495123 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4495123 "Then I found out that this other country — which I thought had a healthcare system that was so superior to the U.S. — doesn't test for the tumour marker that saved my life, and doesn't cover this drug that is responsible for pushing my cancer into remission after traditional chemotherapy failed to do that."