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The future of power grid is to have cheap base load (likely nuclear) and efficient batteries in everything we can put batteries in. When I am talking about bat

The future of power grid is to have cheap base load (likely nuclear) and efficient batteries in everything we can put batteries in. When I am talking about batteries, I really talked about NBD style devices[1]. https://ndb.technology/ https://ndb.technology/

pfdietz 4y ago
Nuclear is not cheap base load, unless you are given the power plant for free.
- tomatocracy 4y ago
  True, but it's not necessarily expensive either in the current context. The strike price EDF agreed for Hinkley Point C in 2013 was £92.50/MWh in 2012 prices. Wholesale prices (both day-ahead and next-season) have been well above that level for some time now (although it is also delayed and over budget so there is additional subsidy in the form of the pain-share mechanism to account for). For new build baseload coming online in 10-20 years, coal or CCGT with carbon capture are probably the realistic alternatives to nuclear in most countries which don't have the resources to build out significant hydro or geothermal baseload. But it's not clear that carbon capture technology can be scaled enough (especially if we go down the storage rather than reuse route), and those technologies look like they could be equally as, if not more expensive than nuclear at this point. Realistically we need to plan for nuclear to at least potentially be a significant part of the energy mix if we can't solve the current scalability issues with carbon capture, demand reduction and storage. On the plus side the costs per unit should scale down as we build more (as the French did in the 70s/80s), if there is the political commitment.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Any new start nuclear plant today would likely be more expensive than renewables + storage (to combine to produce equivalent sythentic baseload) by the time the nuclear plant could come online. I don't think there's any window left for new nuclear plants to make sense, unless their cost can be radically reduced.
    - StreamBright 4y ago
      Do you realize how long a NPP last vs an average "storage" for renewables?
iso1631 4y ago
I could be self sufficient for 10 months a year as a house with solar and batteries for about 10% of the cost of the house, and obviously would be able to opt out of consumption during high demand on the grid. Yet we still allow new houses to be built without powerwalls or similar storage systems.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Numerous companies now offer all in one battery/inverter/management packs for something like $1 per Wh. Setting up a supplimentary system is several thousand dollars and could pay for itself in just a couple years. At this point, the hardest part of the process is finding a load you can power off your micro-solar-grid. Air conditioners work pretty well for that role. Solar is now stupidly, mind numbingly cheap for what it is, and yet there are still people who think it "doesn't work" as if literal gigawatthours aren't generated daily by millions of people and systems.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  > I could be self sufficient for 10 months a year If everyone does that, how much do you think the grid is going to cost you for those other two months?

pfdietz 4y ago

Nuclear is not cheap base load, unless you are given the power plant for free.

tomatocracy 4y ago
True, but it's not necessarily expensive either in the current context. The strike price EDF agreed for Hinkley Point C in 2013 was £92.50/MWh in 2012 prices. Wholesale prices (both day-ahead and next-season) have been well above that level for some time now (although it is also delayed and over budget so there is additional subsidy in the form of the pain-share mechanism to account for). For new build baseload coming online in 10-20 years, coal or CCGT with carbon capture are probably the realistic alternatives to nuclear in most countries which don't have the resources to build out significant hydro or geothermal baseload. But it's not clear that carbon capture technology can be scaled enough (especially if we go down the storage rather than reuse route), and those technologies look like they could be equally as, if not more expensive than nuclear at this point. Realistically we need to plan for nuclear to at least potentially be a significant part of the energy mix if we can't solve the current scalability issues with carbon capture, demand reduction and storage. On the plus side the costs per unit should scale down as we build more (as the French did in the 70s/80s), if there is the political commitment.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  Any new start nuclear plant today would likely be more expensive than renewables + storage (to combine to produce equivalent sythentic baseload) by the time the nuclear plant could come online. I don't think there's any window left for new nuclear plants to make sense, unless their cost can be radically reduced.
  - StreamBright 4y ago
    Do you realize how long a NPP last vs an average "storage" for renewables?

iso1631 4y ago

I could be self sufficient for 10 months a year as a house with solar and batteries for about 10% of the cost of the house, and obviously would be able to opt out of consumption during high demand on the grid. Yet we still allow new houses to be built without powerwalls or similar storage systems.

mrguyorama 4y ago
Numerous companies now offer all in one battery/inverter/management packs for something like $1 per Wh. Setting up a supplimentary system is several thousand dollars and could pay for itself in just a couple years. At this point, the hardest part of the process is finding a load you can power off your micro-solar-grid. Air conditioners work pretty well for that role. Solar is now stupidly, mind numbingly cheap for what it is, and yet there are still people who think it "doesn't work" as if literal gigawatthours aren't generated daily by millions of people and systems.
pfdietz 4y ago
> I could be self sufficient for 10 months a year If everyone does that, how much do you think the grid is going to cost you for those other two months?