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Durov has been pushing a lot of blockchain nonsense over his app. I really like Telegram as a chat app, but his stunts are making me wonder whether it's still a

by frollo 4y ago

Durov has been pushing a lot of blockchain nonsense over his app. I really like Telegram as a chat app, but his stunts are making me wonder whether it's still a good idea to depend so much on it.

ignoramous 4y ago
They need to monetize. Blockchain is one way to capture value (unfortunately, the hype train has long left the station). Given Telegram's functionality (file sharing, large groups in particular), it is likely the costs are way too high.
- kennydude 4y ago
  They could just literally charge the $16 or roughly whatever it is upfront. It means nothing for them to be in a blockchain except waste of resources (ironically increasing their costs...)
  - super256 4y ago
    > They could just literally charge the $16 or roughly whatever it is upfront. It means nothing for them to be in a blockchain except waste of resources (ironically increasing their costs...) I don't think so. When you own a lot of crypto, and have lots of real dollars (Pavel has lots of real dollars!), you can manipulate price a little bit. In 2019/2020 Telegram had to give investors all their money back, and the new TON project started without venture capital with a value of 0$. It's now 1.84$. If their market makers are sophisticated enough, they will create enough liquidity grabs to sell telegram's TON bags over time for a nice sum. I think they are aiming for creating a market + "eco system" similar to ETH.
- rpgbr 4y ago
  Curiously, Durov didn't mention Fragment/blockchain initiatives in his post about Telegram's monetization strategy[1]. [1] https://t.me/durov/203 https://t.me/durov/203
- jrm4 4y ago
  "They need to monetize." Sigh. Charge users directly or GTFO. Seriously. If the product is "very secure messaging," then come right out and say "very secure messaging costs money, pay up." Doing anything -- ANYTHING else lets me know they're not serious about the mission.
  - nine_k 4y ago
    But they do charge users directly: https://telegram.org/faq_premium?setln=en https://telegram.org/faq_premium?setln=en It's a typical freemium model. I'd subscribe if I were certain that my money won't be going to Russia.
    - Mo3 4y ago
      Are you implying Telegram is being run by the Russian government?
      - ptnxlo 4y ago
        That's not the only way money can end up in Russia. Having employees there is a simple one.
- nine_k 4y ago
  https://fragment.com/numbers https://fragment.com/numbers -> "Oops. This service is not available in the United States." Not a great way to monetize in one of the larger markets.
arglebargle123 4y ago
I've been pushing people to use Element (matrix) rather than Telegram whenever possible but Telegram has that critical mass and beats Element's usability by a mile.
- ehPReth 4y ago
  i wish i had a ton of cash to dump into element/matrix development
  - mxuribe 4y ago
    To extend your wish: i wish i had a ton of cash to dump into development of matrix's 3 top most client apps (including Element)...to diversify things, and to ensure they compete with each other for improved UX...and of course to speed towards a more p2p world (at least p2p for messaging). ;-)
  - nine_k 4y ago
    Or maybe into developing a new Matrix client from scratch. The networking libraries may be fine. The UI could be completely rebuilt. (Sadly, I don't have a ton of cash, or even a ton of time, to dedicate to such things.)
    - Arathorn 4y ago
      fwiw we are developing a new Matrix client from scratch at Element, currently codenamed Element X: https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special-2022#matrix-rust-sdk-and-element-x https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special.... It’s built to outperform telegram :)
  - Arathorn 4y ago
    If anyone reading this has a ton of cash to dump into element/matrix development, please head over to funding@matrix.org immediately (cf https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/01/funding-matrix-via-the-matrix-org-foundation https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/01/funding-matrix-via-the-ma...)
pndy 4y ago
I still can't forget about Telegram Passport [1, 1a]. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17618053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17618053

by frollo 4y ago

Durov has been pushing a lot of blockchain nonsense over his app. I really like Telegram as a chat app, but his stunts are making me wonder whether it's still a good idea to depend so much on it.

ignoramous 4y ago

They need to monetize. Blockchain is one way to capture value (unfortunately, the hype train has long left the station). Given Telegram's functionality (file sharing, large groups in particular), it is likely the costs are way too high.

kennydude 4y ago
They could just literally charge the $16 or roughly whatever it is upfront. It means nothing for them to be in a blockchain except waste of resources (ironically increasing their costs...)
- super256 4y ago
  > They could just literally charge the $16 or roughly whatever it is upfront. It means nothing for them to be in a blockchain except waste of resources (ironically increasing their costs...) I don't think so. When you own a lot of crypto, and have lots of real dollars (Pavel has lots of real dollars!), you can manipulate price a little bit. In 2019/2020 Telegram had to give investors all their money back, and the new TON project started without venture capital with a value of 0$. It's now 1.84$. If their market makers are sophisticated enough, they will create enough liquidity grabs to sell telegram's TON bags over time for a nice sum. I think they are aiming for creating a market + "eco system" similar to ETH.
rpgbr 4y ago
Curiously, Durov didn't mention Fragment/blockchain initiatives in his post about Telegram's monetization strategy[1]. [1] https://t.me/durov/203 https://t.me/durov/203
jrm4 4y ago
"They need to monetize." Sigh. Charge users directly or GTFO. Seriously. If the product is "very secure messaging," then come right out and say "very secure messaging costs money, pay up." Doing anything -- ANYTHING else lets me know they're not serious about the mission.
- nine_k 4y ago
  But they do charge users directly: https://telegram.org/faq_premium?setln=en https://telegram.org/faq_premium?setln=en It's a typical freemium model. I'd subscribe if I were certain that my money won't be going to Russia.
  - Mo3 4y ago
    Are you implying Telegram is being run by the Russian government?
    - ptnxlo 4y ago
      That's not the only way money can end up in Russia. Having employees there is a simple one.
nine_k 4y ago
https://fragment.com/numbers https://fragment.com/numbers -> "Oops. This service is not available in the United States." Not a great way to monetize in one of the larger markets.

arglebargle123 4y ago

I've been pushing people to use Element (matrix) rather than Telegram whenever possible but Telegram has that critical mass and beats Element's usability by a mile.

ehPReth 4y ago
i wish i had a ton of cash to dump into element/matrix development
- mxuribe 4y ago
  To extend your wish: i wish i had a ton of cash to dump into development of matrix's 3 top most client apps (including Element)...to diversify things, and to ensure they compete with each other for improved UX...and of course to speed towards a more p2p world (at least p2p for messaging). ;-)
- nine_k 4y ago
  Or maybe into developing a new Matrix client from scratch. The networking libraries may be fine. The UI could be completely rebuilt. (Sadly, I don't have a ton of cash, or even a ton of time, to dedicate to such things.)
  - Arathorn 4y ago
    fwiw we are developing a new Matrix client from scratch at Element, currently codenamed Element X: https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special-2022#matrix-rust-sdk-and-element-x https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special.... It’s built to outperform telegram :)
- Arathorn 4y ago
  If anyone reading this has a ton of cash to dump into element/matrix development, please head over to funding@matrix.org immediately (cf https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/01/funding-matrix-via-the-matrix-org-foundation https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/01/funding-matrix-via-the-ma...)

pndy 4y ago

I still can't forget about Telegram Passport [1, 1a]. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17618053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17618053