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It's frustrating that the article doesn't mention what remaining power plants can restart the grid with this power station gone.

arethuza 4y ago
The pumped storage plant at Cruachan is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station Edit: Given that the turbine hall is 300m deep in granite that station is probably fairly safe from anything other than a nuke!
- jcranmer 4y ago
  > Edit: Given that the turbine hall is 300m deep in granite that station is probably fairly safe from anything other than a nuke! 300m deep in granite is safe from a nuke as well.
  - arethuza 4y ago
    Probably not from one of the SS-18 variants that had a single large 20MT or 25MT warhead - don't think the Russians have any of those still deployed though.
blutack 4y ago
Dinorwig pumped storage hydro is another: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station It's built inside a hollowed out mountain - definitely worth doing the tour if you're in the area. Edit: apparently Drax as well as many of the older plants can too.
- hirsin 4y ago
  Sadly Dinorwig is closed with no sign of reopening soon. It sounds incredible to visit!
  - jefftk 4y ago
    Just the visitor center -- the facility is still in operation, no?
    - neon_electro 4y ago
      Wikipedia doesn't appear to contradict that: "The power station was also promoted as a tourist attraction, with visitors able to take a minibus trip from "Electric Mountain" - the name of its nearby visitor centre - to see the workings inside the power station;[18][17] 132,000 people visited the attraction in 2015.[19] However, the centre is now closed with no prospect of reopening."
egberts1 4y ago
"Remaining power plants"?! Isn't that the sorta thing you would rather not let any others know, you know, for the sake of, national ... you know?
- gambiting 4y ago
  I mean, I'm sure that's not a secret of any kind.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Anything like that will be widely known "in the industry" even if it's not openly described on the internet like https://openinframap.org/ https://openinframap.org/ And if it is known in the industry it is absolutely guaranteed to be known by all countries, friend and foe alike; and real "foes" will have even more knowledge. What is kept secret is what tooling the various militaries may have to assist in a black start, and what would trigger them actually attempting assistance.
    - throwayyy479087 4y ago
      Soviet road and rail maps of the USA were more accurate than the USAs.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        It's one of those almost paradoxical things - the maps by the people who use a system can be very incomplete - because the system is right there! You don't need a detailed map of where the rail line between two points is because you can just follow it. Another example is blueprints - they seem very detailed and accurate until you realize that quite a bit is "left out" and the tradesmen are assumed able to figure it out - it will show fixture locations for example, but rarely show exactly how the wires are run to them. But if you're creating a 'map' of a house you bought, wire locations is extremely useful because they're all behind the walls.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
LatteLazy 4y ago
You can restart most UK power station using a diesel-electric locomotive engine (or two). Back when I was a train engineer we handled contracts to supply them sometimes.
- 7952 4y ago
  I guess that was when they were mostly coal fired and had rail lines for delivery?
pjc50 4y ago
I'm now wondering what the state of the art is in grid-scale solar inverters and whether the firmware would allow you to black start without having to ring up Siemens. Theoretically solar panels in a good place to do it: can output power without needing input power, can have several megawatts on a site, can match phase very easily, can potentially generate phase. Admittedly you have to wait until the sun comes up, but in a true black start situation things are going to move slowly.

arethuza 4y ago

The pumped storage plant at Cruachan is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station Edit: Given that the turbine hall is 300m deep in granite that station is probably fairly safe from anything other than a nuke!

jcranmer 4y ago
> Edit: Given that the turbine hall is 300m deep in granite that station is probably fairly safe from anything other than a nuke! 300m deep in granite is safe from a nuke as well.
- arethuza 4y ago
  Probably not from one of the SS-18 variants that had a single large 20MT or 25MT warhead - don't think the Russians have any of those still deployed though.

blutack 4y ago

Dinorwig pumped storage hydro is another: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station It's built inside a hollowed out mountain - definitely worth doing the tour if you're in the area. Edit: apparently Drax as well as many of the older plants can too.

hirsin 4y ago
Sadly Dinorwig is closed with no sign of reopening soon. It sounds incredible to visit!
- jefftk 4y ago
  Just the visitor center -- the facility is still in operation, no?
  - neon_electro 4y ago
    Wikipedia doesn't appear to contradict that: "The power station was also promoted as a tourist attraction, with visitors able to take a minibus trip from "Electric Mountain" - the name of its nearby visitor centre - to see the workings inside the power station;[18][17] 132,000 people visited the attraction in 2015.[19] However, the centre is now closed with no prospect of reopening."

egberts1 4y ago

"Remaining power plants"?! Isn't that the sorta thing you would rather not let any others know, you know, for the sake of, national ... you know?

gambiting 4y ago
I mean, I'm sure that's not a secret of any kind.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Anything like that will be widely known "in the industry" even if it's not openly described on the internet like https://openinframap.org/ https://openinframap.org/ And if it is known in the industry it is absolutely guaranteed to be known by all countries, friend and foe alike; and real "foes" will have even more knowledge. What is kept secret is what tooling the various militaries may have to assist in a black start, and what would trigger them actually attempting assistance.
  - throwayyy479087 4y ago
    Soviet road and rail maps of the USA were more accurate than the USAs.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      It's one of those almost paradoxical things - the maps by the people who use a system can be very incomplete - because the system is right there! You don't need a detailed map of where the rail line between two points is because you can just follow it. Another example is blueprints - they seem very detailed and accurate until you realize that quite a bit is "left out" and the tradesmen are assumed able to figure it out - it will show fixture locations for example, but rarely show exactly how the wires are run to them. But if you're creating a 'map' of a house you bought, wire locations is extremely useful because they're all behind the walls.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

LatteLazy 4y ago

You can restart most UK power station using a diesel-electric locomotive engine (or two). Back when I was a train engineer we handled contracts to supply them sometimes.

7952 4y ago
I guess that was when they were mostly coal fired and had rail lines for delivery?

pjc50 4y ago

I'm now wondering what the state of the art is in grid-scale solar inverters and whether the firmware would allow you to black start without having to ring up Siemens. Theoretically solar panels in a good place to do it: can output power without needing input power, can have several megawatts on a site, can match phase very easily, can potentially generate phase. Admittedly you have to wait until the sun comes up, but in a true black start situation things are going to move slowly.