9 ms·

Korg makes music with Raspberry Pi

144 points by sohkamyung 4y ago

zxcb1 4y ago
Raspberry Pi - Enterprise Edition
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- WorldPeas 4y ago
  You'd be surprised how much of your medical data is generated by pis! Many medical OEMs I work with encourage their clients to integrate such chips into their machines. I just can't wait until they're cycled thru so I can play quake 3 on a centrifuge
nimbius 4y ago
the average pi costs about $200 these days (if you can find one)
- VTimofeenko 4y ago
  Check out rpilocator.com. I was able to get 4 different pis at MSRP over the course of this year.
  - mhzsh 4y ago
    Recently, though? This worked earlier this year, but one vendor had at least 90x RPI4-8B in stock yesterday and they were gone in seconds. rpilocator didn't even see it.
    - mindcrime 4y ago
      I've bought 2 or 3 Pi's this year at the regular price, thanks to rpilocator. The most recent was a couple of months ago. You do have to kinda watch it a bit obsessively if you're really serious about finding one, but it can be done. Or you could also just constantly refresh the page(s) of a couple of vendors that you know to get stock on some regular / semi-regular basis. Adafruit is one, and Elektor seems to get stock now and then as well.
    - VTimofeenko 4y ago
      I think the latest one I got was in July and it was a CM4 8GB/32GB
  - jchw 4y ago
    I'm jealous. Every time I see adafruit get restocked, it's all gone less than 10 minutes later. I've basically given up on Raspberry Pi at this point.
    - VTimofeenko 4y ago
      That mirrors my experience with Adafruit. I had better luck with digi-key and pishop. Honestly I lost count how many times I perked up from the alert on rpilocator only for the stock to disappear while I was going through the checkout.
- wwweston 4y ago
  Yeah, I went looking for one about two months ago and decided it wasn't worth it. The value calculation has always been a bit iffy vs "let's see what small-factor desktop machines people are dumping in the local classifieds" if what you want is a cheap PC to mess with. That's probably very much true for software instrument / sequencing stuff. Because of the ecosystem, the value calculation has been better for the Pi if you're building projects that are a small computer built into a larger electronic setup. But at the current price & availability I'm definitely trying to figure out what other single board options are easy enough or considering learning more about the microcontroller space.
- deathanatos 4y ago
  … they are perpetually out of stock, even in brick and mortar retail. Which makes it all the much odder for RPi to write what amounts to a press piece about their hardware. You don't need more marketing, you need the price to not be $∞ due to supply issues.
  - jonp888 4y ago
    They're only out of stock because they only sell in retail channels what is left over after industrial customers have bought everything they need. So if you look at this as an advert about industrial usage aimed at industrial users, it makes sense.
FeistySkink 4y ago
Some details about the insides would be useful. This is barely a marketing blurb. Edit: the success story is also thin on details.
- mikko-apo 4y ago
  I disagree, the success story has details that reveal lots on what's going on. > The team uses software to prototype their instruments before implementing hardware designs. With the basic software platform already functional, developing the wavestate using Compute Module 3 took a fairly modest year From that I would assume that software is developed on regular PCs and it took a year for them to get the software running on CM3 and hook up the CM3 to the two circuit boards and various systems. Which is super fast. > The setup has two circuit boards. The main panel board contains all of the user interface elements, including display, buttons, knobs, wheels, and other synth-specific controls, along with MCU microprocessors to support them and communicate with the CM3. Main board has all the physical buttons, knobs wheels, displays etc and MCUs are used to communicate with CM3 > The other circuit board has subsystems for audio, MIDI, the musical keyboard, and power, plus the socket for the CM3 The 2nd circuit board has D/A converters, midi connectors, keys and power and the CM3. The CM3 is basically responsible for all the computations on the device. It gets inputs from various sources and outputs constantly digital audio to the DAC, midi to the midi out, data to the display etc. I guess this would be the part where details would have been nice, but there's probably lots going on. How they ensure low latency function of the synth platform, how does the development process go, how does the CM3 integrate with the various systems. Each of those would be very indepth stuff, but imo the HN relevant part how they sped up the overall development of the platform and that is covered by the article. Anyways, the cool part is how the three devices use the same hardware, so Korg can basically recycle both hardware designs, components and software from synth to synth. This speeds up development and reduces costs. Super cool. Comparing that to how synths were made in the 80s, where you had to have a separate board per voice and replicate all the analog components between voices and keep their power usage and heat in control. Thomann has nice pictures of the synths. The reuse is very obvious: https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_wavestate.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_wavestate.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_opsix.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_opsix.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_modwave.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_modwave.htm The insides of Yamaha CS-80 from 1977 (weight: 82kg) look a bit different https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_poihkLM5Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_poihkLM5Go Of course, with modern components a CS-80 clone (Black Corporation Deckard's Dream mk2) fits in to rack format and weighs only 4.5kg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf0kpidGc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf0kpidGc4 but the assembly of the DIY kit looks pretty painful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-pM2OBU1o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-pM2OBU1o
cammikebrown 4y ago
It would be cool if they actually mentioned which synths use the Raspberry Pi, but it appears they don’t.
- valdiorn 4y ago
  It's the modwave, wavestate and the opsix. They all share the same core hardware and physical layout and enclosure but have customised front panels. Actually really good products, well designed, I love the opsix :)
  - jscheel 4y ago
    Everything but the keys, right? I've got my opsix right behind me, and I just can't believe how bad the keys are. TBF, it's right above my Moog Matriarch, so that might be a bit of an unfair comparison.
    - mortenjorck 4y ago
      This is more or less a meme on music gear forums, and in my view it's a bit overstated. It's no Fatar to be sure, but it's still in line with what I'd expect from a sub-$1k keyboard. The critical thing they got right is the velocity sensitivity: Especially on an FM synth, you need that expressive range, and the Opsix keys deliver there.
      - jscheel 4y ago
        I agree that the velocity sensitive is good, but the keybed is by far the worst one in my studio, regardless of price. I have plenty of cheaper keybeds that feel significantly better.
      - krick 4y ago
        I got a bit triggered by that "sub-$1k keyboard" of yours. I mean, you are totally right, this is a typical product for that price, i.e. this is a "normal" market price for this kind of product… But, man, I just can't get over the fact how ridiculously overpriced these things are! These are such simple devices, so much easier to produce than "classical" music instruments. Yet because of small market and the product being somewhat of a "professional tool" we still get these pretty basic keyboards for $1k+ and behave as if it's a totally fair price because of hammer action and stuff (and take it for granted that $500 devices should have shitty keyboards). Sure, good mechanics are worth something, but (especially when talking about midi-keyboards) it's the only thing that's complicated in these devices, and it isn't that expensive to produce.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Korg also makes their digital and analog ecosystem fairly open at the lower end; analog devices are designed to be easily hackable and they facilitate sideloading of DSP applications; code that runs on this device can also be loaded onto several of their consumer models: https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_1/ https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_1/ This has a lot to do with why they've been eating Roland's lunch for the last several years, while that latter company keeps trying to convince buyers that completely locked down circuit simulation of classic devices at fancy prices is what the people want. At the cheaper end of the scale, companies like Sonicware are exploiting commodity-priced microcontrollers for their 12-bit synthesis and processing capabilities. While their own offerings are not open-source, abundant resources exist for anyone interested in processing audio on crunchy chips and you can get into it for about $20 in hardware costs (years of your life not refundable; synthesizers are nerd crack).
- worldmerge 4y ago
  That's so cool! Thanks for sharing that! Do you know how they're making the synth sounds on the pi? Like are they going full pure-data/MaxMSP/SuperCollider with it or are they still using discrete sound chips?
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Mostly in C; check out the Logue-SDK repo: https://github.com/korginc https://github.com/korginc You might also like this (though I don't know if it's using the R-Pi or is user-moddable): https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_2_pt/ https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_2_pt/ They may still use discrete circuitry on their high end workstations, but I'm not sure. Korg embraced all-DSP synthesis early while their Japanese competitors (Roland, Yamaha, Akai) maxed out on sample playback and high polyphony. They have always had a narrow focus on synthesis, with minor incursions into the guitar utility/space, whereas Roland has a massive product catalog of electronic instruments (but a highly proprietary ethos) and Yamaha hasn't done anything in years (a pity, as they made great hardware sequencers. Akai is a special case as they basically own the market for hip-hop and its derivatives but are also unable to break out of it. I believe their gear runs on Linux, but like the other two their hardware/software stack is heavily locked down.
worldmerge 4y ago
How do you break into the sound world? It looks like a really fun space to be a programmer. I love hardware and tactile stuff.
- ruleforty 4y ago
  I came across the LMN 3: there’s a lot to unpack but it might be the most mature project in terms of both hardware and software out there. It’s as close to having the right tools, PCBs, etc. for an open source Teenage Engineering OP-1: https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2022/06/25/the-lmn-3-an-open-source-teenage-engineering-op-1/ https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2022/06/25/the-lmn-3-an-o...
- type0 4y ago
  Look at Bela and Electro-smith Daisy, there are a bunch of simple diy synths made with teensy and some minimal components https://bela.io/ https://bela.io/ https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy
- throw_m239339 4y ago
  InMusic/Akai/Alesis/Numark are hiring. Just learn C/C++ and JUCE and read a few digital signal processing book, you're good to go. The market for synthesizers/grooveboxes has literally exploded in the last 10 years.
walrus01 4y ago
Also unusual music related things: Moog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_synthesizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_synthesizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_Inc. The cousin of the guy who made the Moog synthesizer created that company, which makes all sorts of technical/industrial/defense industry things.
Jedd 4y ago
There's a bunch of people doing some pretty amazing synth builds with the Raspberry Pi -- the Zynthian crew [0] springs to mind. Basically bring your own USB midi keyboard / controller - these tend to be cheap, but also engender very strong opinions, so there's some distinct advantages to having them as separate components, but with the synth box being much more portable than a laptop or desktop. As to the Korg Wavestate - on this side of the pond (AU) it has an RRP of A$1500, though street pricing is around A$1000. [0] https://zynthian.org/ https://zynthian.org/
TonyTrapp 4y ago
Korg always seem to have been a bit pragmatic with using ready-made hardware where other manufacturers go at great lengths to come up with their own solution. Look at the inside of this Korg M3: https://www.personal-view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/37/988e717a19fc57a159bd8243d9aa4e.jpg https://www.personal-view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/37/98... It seems like the operating system comes on an SD card (makes upgrades easy, I guess), and the power supply looks like a standard laptop power supply.
- varispeed 4y ago
  They should really be working on their own solutions as they can afford it rather than buying from pool of hardware small businesses are struggling to secure.
  - TonyTrapp 4y ago
    Korg themselves now struggle delivering those synthesizers. In many shops they are sold out for months. They are in exactly the same situation as those small businesses. It's quite disingenuous to blame Korg for a shortage of parts that had no shortage when they designed and first sold those synthesizers (more than two years ago). Also, even big brand names in the synthesizer world are often comparatively small businesses themselves. Korg is probably a lot smaller than you imagine right now. Their name is much bigger than the actual company.
monkmartinez 4y ago
The shortage of Raspberry Pi's is going to be their undoing. Everyone in the circles I travel (3D printing, Hobby CNC, Self-hosting, cyberdeck, plotters, etc.) are looking for replacements. There are quite a few contenders, and more recently lots of folks are grabbing thin clients (then installing Linux). My thought process; In a silo, the raspberry pi isn't all that spectacular and needs a lot of do-dads/thing-i-majigs for even basic functionality. Power supplies and real HDD/SSD's for Rpi's can be a pain point. There are cheaper and better alternatives imo. What makes the Raspberry Pi so cool is the community and ease of use due to said community effort. If that community coalesce around another platform, the rpi foundation will be in big trouble.
- Uehreka 4y ago
  At the moment some of those competitors may have spare supply because people weren’t interested in them before. But once that runs out, I don’t see a reason they won’t all run into the same problems as the RPi Foundation as they get in line behind them for the limited-available time at the fabs.
  - jerrysievert 4y ago
    I've been trying to find a pi zero 2w for quite a while, and have started looking at whatever else I can import at a decent price. so far, I've run into things like https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804186541934.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804186541934.html with such interesting features as: * Performance garbage, single core, very cardy to use * Some software porting risc-v has wonderful bugs * No GPU, very laggy and really nothing exciting on arm. I'm expecting these to disappear soon as well. really hoping some fab time opens soon to get even the allwinner devices back on the market at reasonable price/quantity.
  - monkmartinez 4y ago
    Why do you think they will be supply constrained? Does Allwinner make Rockchips? I see the competitors being a bit more flexible in regard to SoC used. There seems to be a plethora to choose from with different chips, but I am speaking from a very lay person POV.
tmaly 4y ago
I am curious if there are any great plans to make your own synth with a pi?
testermelon 4y ago
I wonder if the Raspi uses OS in this use case. I imagine using the hardware directly like a microcontroller is also a possibility. I also wonder if they use some kind of linux distribution with their own software on top of it.
minhmeoke 4y ago
For people interested in this, there are several open source projects which turn Raspberry Pis into a MIDI synthesizers: MiniDexed: 8 DX7 Tone Generators - https://github.com/probonopd/MiniDexed https://github.com/probonopd/MiniDexed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3t94ceMHJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3t94ceMHJo MT32-Pi: Roland MT-32 emulator - https://github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi https://github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSD_wbzJRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSD_wbzJRw Optionally, buy a PCM5102/PCM5122 or ES9018K2M I2S DAC to improve the output sound quality since the DAC built into the Raspberry Pi is not that great: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/76188/how-to-make-pcm5102-dac-work-on-raspberry-pi-zerow https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/76188/how-to... PCM5102 (~$7): https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=PCM5102+DAC https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=PCM5102+DAC ES9018K2M (~$12): https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=es9018k2m+i2s&SortType=price_asc https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=es9018k2m+i2...
- djmips 4y ago
  And likely you can port these to systems you can buy right now like the Teensy 4.x - or they are already ported. Like MicroDexed https://codeberg.org/positionhigh/MicroDexed-touch https://codeberg.org/positionhigh/MicroDexed-touch https://www.parasitstudio.de/ https://www.parasitstudio.de/
sublinear 4y ago
Alternatively you can run a DAW like SunVox on just about any smart device made in the last two decades from Windows CE and Palm to modern Android and iOS devices, as well as Linux, Mac, and Windows. In most cases this is probably way more flexible, fully featured, easy to use, and cheaper than involving a Pi. My current set up is a MIDI controller connected to an otherwise junk and unloved 2-in-1 laptop/tablet running Ubuntu Studio. Pretty low latency and SunVox is literally made for touchscreens and slow hardware. I love it!
- nine_k 4y ago
  SunVox is indeed amazing.
- vacuumcl 4y ago
  I have not used Sunvox but I make music as a hobby using trackers like Renoise, and also various DAWs. I would still say that there is an advantage to having a specially designed hardware synth with intuitive knobs and faders. I'm glad that KORG can make reasonably affordable and professional synths while using off the shelf hardware like the Pi. In my opinion the presets and ease of use of paid synths (both software and hardware) are still quite a bit ahead of free options.
  - sublinear 4y ago
    Oof that last sentence :) I don't want to make SunVox or its other fans look bad so I just encourage anyone reading this to give it a whirl. It's jam packed with features and stellar patches/examples despite its simple and clean interface. It really is a joy to work with, especially on a tablet sized screen. It's so good when scaled properly that I prefer it over physical controls sometimes. You may or may not like the pattern editor because it's a tracker interface, but the rest of the tool is so good live that you can initially ignore it and then slowly incorporate it into your workflow.
musicale 4y ago
This could be .... kind of exciting because Korg makes some great synths (I am partial to the Minilogue, Prologue, and some of the Volcas) and now know that they might be hackable?!! > 1988’s iconic M1 keyboard sold for $2,749, which would be about $6,800 in today’s money They have great M1 apps for iOS (and Nintendo 3DS?!) as well as plugins for DAWs on macOS and Windows (and of course Gadget on mobile, desktop and ... Nintendo Switch - though I think the Switch doesn't have an M1 app or plugin.) Party like it's 1991. Korg's iOS apps are all phenomenal. I particularly like the Gadget DAW and associated plugin collection, and the software versions of the Wavestation, ARP Odyssey, Electribe, and Polysix. I also had a lot of fun with the DS-10/DS-10 plus app for the Nintendo DS/DSi.
- elevaet 4y ago
  I've had the M1 VST for a long time, and I've been really impressed that with every tech bottleneck (64bit OS, and just now Apple Silicon CPU) Korg has continued to update the software to work on the new hardware, even though this piece of software must be 15+ years old now. I love companies that behave like this, Korg has my loyalty. Aside: the poly-800 is a pile of fun!

144 points by sohkamyung 4y ago

zxcb1 4y ago

Raspberry Pi - Enterprise Edition

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
WorldPeas 4y ago
You'd be surprised how much of your medical data is generated by pis! Many medical OEMs I work with encourage their clients to integrate such chips into their machines. I just can't wait until they're cycled thru so I can play quake 3 on a centrifuge

nimbius 4y ago

the average pi costs about $200 these days (if you can find one)

VTimofeenko 4y ago
Check out rpilocator.com. I was able to get 4 different pis at MSRP over the course of this year.
- mhzsh 4y ago
  Recently, though? This worked earlier this year, but one vendor had at least 90x RPI4-8B in stock yesterday and they were gone in seconds. rpilocator didn't even see it.
  - mindcrime 4y ago
    I've bought 2 or 3 Pi's this year at the regular price, thanks to rpilocator. The most recent was a couple of months ago. You do have to kinda watch it a bit obsessively if you're really serious about finding one, but it can be done. Or you could also just constantly refresh the page(s) of a couple of vendors that you know to get stock on some regular / semi-regular basis. Adafruit is one, and Elektor seems to get stock now and then as well.
  - VTimofeenko 4y ago
    I think the latest one I got was in July and it was a CM4 8GB/32GB
- jchw 4y ago
  I'm jealous. Every time I see adafruit get restocked, it's all gone less than 10 minutes later. I've basically given up on Raspberry Pi at this point.
  - VTimofeenko 4y ago
    That mirrors my experience with Adafruit. I had better luck with digi-key and pishop. Honestly I lost count how many times I perked up from the alert on rpilocator only for the stock to disappear while I was going through the checkout.
wwweston 4y ago
Yeah, I went looking for one about two months ago and decided it wasn't worth it. The value calculation has always been a bit iffy vs "let's see what small-factor desktop machines people are dumping in the local classifieds" if what you want is a cheap PC to mess with. That's probably very much true for software instrument / sequencing stuff. Because of the ecosystem, the value calculation has been better for the Pi if you're building projects that are a small computer built into a larger electronic setup. But at the current price & availability I'm definitely trying to figure out what other single board options are easy enough or considering learning more about the microcontroller space.
deathanatos 4y ago
… they are perpetually out of stock, even in brick and mortar retail. Which makes it all the much odder for RPi to write what amounts to a press piece about their hardware. You don't need more marketing, you need the price to not be $∞ due to supply issues.
- jonp888 4y ago
  They're only out of stock because they only sell in retail channels what is left over after industrial customers have bought everything they need. So if you look at this as an advert about industrial usage aimed at industrial users, it makes sense.

FeistySkink 4y ago

Some details about the insides would be useful. This is barely a marketing blurb. Edit: the success story is also thin on details.

mikko-apo 4y ago
I disagree, the success story has details that reveal lots on what's going on. > The team uses software to prototype their instruments before implementing hardware designs. With the basic software platform already functional, developing the wavestate using Compute Module 3 took a fairly modest year From that I would assume that software is developed on regular PCs and it took a year for them to get the software running on CM3 and hook up the CM3 to the two circuit boards and various systems. Which is super fast. > The setup has two circuit boards. The main panel board contains all of the user interface elements, including display, buttons, knobs, wheels, and other synth-specific controls, along with MCU microprocessors to support them and communicate with the CM3. Main board has all the physical buttons, knobs wheels, displays etc and MCUs are used to communicate with CM3 > The other circuit board has subsystems for audio, MIDI, the musical keyboard, and power, plus the socket for the CM3 The 2nd circuit board has D/A converters, midi connectors, keys and power and the CM3. The CM3 is basically responsible for all the computations on the device. It gets inputs from various sources and outputs constantly digital audio to the DAC, midi to the midi out, data to the display etc. I guess this would be the part where details would have been nice, but there's probably lots going on. How they ensure low latency function of the synth platform, how does the development process go, how does the CM3 integrate with the various systems. Each of those would be very indepth stuff, but imo the HN relevant part how they sped up the overall development of the platform and that is covered by the article. Anyways, the cool part is how the three devices use the same hardware, so Korg can basically recycle both hardware designs, components and software from synth to synth. This speeds up development and reduces costs. Super cool. Comparing that to how synths were made in the 80s, where you had to have a separate board per voice and replicate all the analog components between voices and keep their power usage and heat in control. Thomann has nice pictures of the synths. The reuse is very obvious: https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_wavestate.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_wavestate.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_opsix.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_opsix.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_modwave.htm https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_modwave.htm The insides of Yamaha CS-80 from 1977 (weight: 82kg) look a bit different https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_poihkLM5Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_poihkLM5Go Of course, with modern components a CS-80 clone (Black Corporation Deckard's Dream mk2) fits in to rack format and weighs only 4.5kg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf0kpidGc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf0kpidGc4 but the assembly of the DIY kit looks pretty painful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-pM2OBU1o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-pM2OBU1o

cammikebrown 4y ago

It would be cool if they actually mentioned which synths use the Raspberry Pi, but it appears they don’t.

valdiorn 4y ago
It's the modwave, wavestate and the opsix. They all share the same core hardware and physical layout and enclosure but have customised front panels. Actually really good products, well designed, I love the opsix :)
- jscheel 4y ago
  Everything but the keys, right? I've got my opsix right behind me, and I just can't believe how bad the keys are. TBF, it's right above my Moog Matriarch, so that might be a bit of an unfair comparison.
  - mortenjorck 4y ago
    This is more or less a meme on music gear forums, and in my view it's a bit overstated. It's no Fatar to be sure, but it's still in line with what I'd expect from a sub-$1k keyboard. The critical thing they got right is the velocity sensitivity: Especially on an FM synth, you need that expressive range, and the Opsix keys deliver there.
    - jscheel 4y ago
      I agree that the velocity sensitive is good, but the keybed is by far the worst one in my studio, regardless of price. I have plenty of cheaper keybeds that feel significantly better.
    - krick 4y ago
      I got a bit triggered by that "sub-$1k keyboard" of yours. I mean, you are totally right, this is a typical product for that price, i.e. this is a "normal" market price for this kind of product… But, man, I just can't get over the fact how ridiculously overpriced these things are! These are such simple devices, so much easier to produce than "classical" music instruments. Yet because of small market and the product being somewhat of a "professional tool" we still get these pretty basic keyboards for $1k+ and behave as if it's a totally fair price because of hammer action and stuff (and take it for granted that $500 devices should have shitty keyboards). Sure, good mechanics are worth something, but (especially when talking about midi-keyboards) it's the only thing that's complicated in these devices, and it isn't that expensive to produce.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Korg also makes their digital and analog ecosystem fairly open at the lower end; analog devices are designed to be easily hackable and they facilitate sideloading of DSP applications; code that runs on this device can also be loaded onto several of their consumer models: https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_1/ https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_1/ This has a lot to do with why they've been eating Roland's lunch for the last several years, while that latter company keeps trying to convince buyers that completely locked down circuit simulation of classic devices at fancy prices is what the people want. At the cheaper end of the scale, companies like Sonicware are exploiting commodity-priced microcontrollers for their 12-bit synthesis and processing capabilities. While their own offerings are not open-source, abundant resources exist for anyone interested in processing audio on crunchy chips and you can get into it for about $20 in hardware costs (years of your life not refundable; synthesizers are nerd crack).

worldmerge 4y ago
That's so cool! Thanks for sharing that! Do you know how they're making the synth sounds on the pi? Like are they going full pure-data/MaxMSP/SuperCollider with it or are they still using discrete sound chips?
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Mostly in C; check out the Logue-SDK repo: https://github.com/korginc https://github.com/korginc You might also like this (though I don't know if it's using the R-Pi or is user-moddable): https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_2_pt/ https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_2_pt/ They may still use discrete circuitry on their high end workstations, but I'm not sure. Korg embraced all-DSP synthesis early while their Japanese competitors (Roland, Yamaha, Akai) maxed out on sample playback and high polyphony. They have always had a narrow focus on synthesis, with minor incursions into the guitar utility/space, whereas Roland has a massive product catalog of electronic instruments (but a highly proprietary ethos) and Yamaha hasn't done anything in years (a pity, as they made great hardware sequencers. Akai is a special case as they basically own the market for hip-hop and its derivatives but are also unable to break out of it. I believe their gear runs on Linux, but like the other two their hardware/software stack is heavily locked down.

worldmerge 4y ago

How do you break into the sound world? It looks like a really fun space to be a programmer. I love hardware and tactile stuff.

ruleforty 4y ago
I came across the LMN 3: there’s a lot to unpack but it might be the most mature project in terms of both hardware and software out there. It’s as close to having the right tools, PCBs, etc. for an open source Teenage Engineering OP-1: https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2022/06/25/the-lmn-3-an-open-source-teenage-engineering-op-1/ https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2022/06/25/the-lmn-3-an-o...
type0 4y ago
Look at Bela and Electro-smith Daisy, there are a bunch of simple diy synths made with teensy and some minimal components https://bela.io/ https://bela.io/ https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy
throw_m239339 4y ago
InMusic/Akai/Alesis/Numark are hiring. Just learn C/C++ and JUCE and read a few digital signal processing book, you're good to go. The market for synthesizers/grooveboxes has literally exploded in the last 10 years.

walrus01 4y ago

Also unusual music related things: Moog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_synthesizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_synthesizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_Inc. The cousin of the guy who made the Moog synthesizer created that company, which makes all sorts of technical/industrial/defense industry things.

Jedd 4y ago

There's a bunch of people doing some pretty amazing synth builds with the Raspberry Pi -- the Zynthian crew [0] springs to mind. Basically bring your own USB midi keyboard / controller - these tend to be cheap, but also engender very strong opinions, so there's some distinct advantages to having them as separate components, but with the synth box being much more portable than a laptop or desktop. As to the Korg Wavestate - on this side of the pond (AU) it has an RRP of A$1500, though street pricing is around A$1000. [0] https://zynthian.org/ https://zynthian.org/

TonyTrapp 4y ago

Korg always seem to have been a bit pragmatic with using ready-made hardware where other manufacturers go at great lengths to come up with their own solution. Look at the inside of this Korg M3: https://www.personal-view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/37/988e717a19fc57a159bd8243d9aa4e.jpg https://www.personal-view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/37/98... It seems like the operating system comes on an SD card (makes upgrades easy, I guess), and the power supply looks like a standard laptop power supply.

varispeed 4y ago
They should really be working on their own solutions as they can afford it rather than buying from pool of hardware small businesses are struggling to secure.
- TonyTrapp 4y ago
  Korg themselves now struggle delivering those synthesizers. In many shops they are sold out for months. They are in exactly the same situation as those small businesses. It's quite disingenuous to blame Korg for a shortage of parts that had no shortage when they designed and first sold those synthesizers (more than two years ago). Also, even big brand names in the synthesizer world are often comparatively small businesses themselves. Korg is probably a lot smaller than you imagine right now. Their name is much bigger than the actual company.

monkmartinez 4y ago

The shortage of Raspberry Pi's is going to be their undoing. Everyone in the circles I travel (3D printing, Hobby CNC, Self-hosting, cyberdeck, plotters, etc.) are looking for replacements. There are quite a few contenders, and more recently lots of folks are grabbing thin clients (then installing Linux). My thought process; In a silo, the raspberry pi isn't all that spectacular and needs a lot of do-dads/thing-i-majigs for even basic functionality. Power supplies and real HDD/SSD's for Rpi's can be a pain point. There are cheaper and better alternatives imo. What makes the Raspberry Pi so cool is the community and ease of use due to said community effort. If that community coalesce around another platform, the rpi foundation will be in big trouble.

Uehreka 4y ago
At the moment some of those competitors may have spare supply because people weren’t interested in them before. But once that runs out, I don’t see a reason they won’t all run into the same problems as the RPi Foundation as they get in line behind them for the limited-available time at the fabs.
- jerrysievert 4y ago
  I've been trying to find a pi zero 2w for quite a while, and have started looking at whatever else I can import at a decent price. so far, I've run into things like https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804186541934.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804186541934.html with such interesting features as: * Performance garbage, single core, very cardy to use * Some software porting risc-v has wonderful bugs * No GPU, very laggy and really nothing exciting on arm. I'm expecting these to disappear soon as well. really hoping some fab time opens soon to get even the allwinner devices back on the market at reasonable price/quantity.
- monkmartinez 4y ago
  Why do you think they will be supply constrained? Does Allwinner make Rockchips? I see the competitors being a bit more flexible in regard to SoC used. There seems to be a plethora to choose from with different chips, but I am speaking from a very lay person POV.

tmaly 4y ago

I am curious if there are any great plans to make your own synth with a pi?

testermelon 4y ago

I wonder if the Raspi uses OS in this use case. I imagine using the hardware directly like a microcontroller is also a possibility. I also wonder if they use some kind of linux distribution with their own software on top of it.

minhmeoke 4y ago

For people interested in this, there are several open source projects which turn Raspberry Pis into a MIDI synthesizers: MiniDexed: 8 DX7 Tone Generators - https://github.com/probonopd/MiniDexed https://github.com/probonopd/MiniDexed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3t94ceMHJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3t94ceMHJo MT32-Pi: Roland MT-32 emulator - https://github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi https://github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSD_wbzJRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSD_wbzJRw Optionally, buy a PCM5102/PCM5122 or ES9018K2M I2S DAC to improve the output sound quality since the DAC built into the Raspberry Pi is not that great: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/76188/how-to-make-pcm5102-dac-work-on-raspberry-pi-zerow https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/76188/how-to... PCM5102 (~$7): https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=PCM5102+DAC https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=PCM5102+DAC ES9018K2M (~$12): https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=es9018k2m+i2s&SortType=price_asc https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=es9018k2m+i2...

djmips 4y ago
And likely you can port these to systems you can buy right now like the Teensy 4.x - or they are already ported. Like MicroDexed https://codeberg.org/positionhigh/MicroDexed-touch https://codeberg.org/positionhigh/MicroDexed-touch https://www.parasitstudio.de/ https://www.parasitstudio.de/

sublinear 4y ago

Alternatively you can run a DAW like SunVox on just about any smart device made in the last two decades from Windows CE and Palm to modern Android and iOS devices, as well as Linux, Mac, and Windows. In most cases this is probably way more flexible, fully featured, easy to use, and cheaper than involving a Pi. My current set up is a MIDI controller connected to an otherwise junk and unloved 2-in-1 laptop/tablet running Ubuntu Studio. Pretty low latency and SunVox is literally made for touchscreens and slow hardware. I love it!

nine_k 4y ago
SunVox is indeed amazing.
vacuumcl 4y ago
I have not used Sunvox but I make music as a hobby using trackers like Renoise, and also various DAWs. I would still say that there is an advantage to having a specially designed hardware synth with intuitive knobs and faders. I'm glad that KORG can make reasonably affordable and professional synths while using off the shelf hardware like the Pi. In my opinion the presets and ease of use of paid synths (both software and hardware) are still quite a bit ahead of free options.
- sublinear 4y ago
  Oof that last sentence :) I don't want to make SunVox or its other fans look bad so I just encourage anyone reading this to give it a whirl. It's jam packed with features and stellar patches/examples despite its simple and clean interface. It really is a joy to work with, especially on a tablet sized screen. It's so good when scaled properly that I prefer it over physical controls sometimes. You may or may not like the pattern editor because it's a tracker interface, but the rest of the tool is so good live that you can initially ignore it and then slowly incorporate it into your workflow.

musicale 4y ago

This could be .... kind of exciting because Korg makes some great synths (I am partial to the Minilogue, Prologue, and some of the Volcas) and now know that they might be hackable?!! > 1988’s iconic M1 keyboard sold for $2,749, which would be about $6,800 in today’s money They have great M1 apps for iOS (and Nintendo 3DS?!) as well as plugins for DAWs on macOS and Windows (and of course Gadget on mobile, desktop and ... Nintendo Switch - though I think the Switch doesn't have an M1 app or plugin.) Party like it's 1991. Korg's iOS apps are all phenomenal. I particularly like the Gadget DAW and associated plugin collection, and the software versions of the Wavestation, ARP Odyssey, Electribe, and Polysix. I also had a lot of fun with the DS-10/DS-10 plus app for the Nintendo DS/DSi.

elevaet 4y ago
I've had the M1 VST for a long time, and I've been really impressed that with every tech bottleneck (64bit OS, and just now Apple Silicon CPU) Korg has continued to update the software to work on the new hardware, even though this piece of software must be 15+ years old now. I love companies that behave like this, Korg has my loyalty. Aside: the poly-800 is a pile of fun!