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Apparently the article can't be trusted. Read comments on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/mw542/the_signals_may_be_faint_but_they_are_consis

Apparently the article can't be trusted. Read comments on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/mw542/the_signals_may_be_faint_but_they_are_consistent/ http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/mw542/the_signal...

tptacek 15y ago
Was going to say the same thing. I didn't look at the masthead until I got to the part about the evil Islamic human rights organization that cared a lot about the reporter's Jewish name, whereupon I thought "what the" and, ahh, it's The Weekly Standard. Of course. Let's all be clearheaded about what's going on here: This is an article that says that the Chinese are rounding up protesters and warehousing them in military prisons until party officials show up with organ troubles, whereupon doctors are sent in to take blood from the prisoners to find matches so that those prisoners can be carefully executed (by gunshot) so that their organs can be harvested while the prisoner is still alive. This extraordinarily claim is backed up by... an anonymous source.
- malandrew 15y ago
  I spent two weeks traveling in Xinjiang in 2006 and everything I saw suggested that it was an occupied territory. The most obvious sign is that the population almost everywhere you traveled were ethnic Uighur, but the police forces were all ethnically Han Chinese. Prior to visiting Xinjiang, I had lived 1 year in Beijing and Handan, Hebei for 6 months. The other detail that caught me off guard is that for 1.5 years, I had not seen a police officer with a gun. Every police officer in the East of the country had a baton, but no gun. In Xinjiang, not only were the police of obviously different ethnic origin, it was not uncommon to see them armed with handguns and occasionally with an assault rifle. I don't know anything really about the issue discussed in the article other than hearsay, but there is no doubt in my mind that Xinjiang is undergoing "ethnic cleansing" by dilution. AFAIK the same is happening in Tibet.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    One way of summarizing what you just wrote is: "I spent two weeks traveling in Xinjiang in 2006 and saw only ethnic Han policing the majority Uighur population, often unusually well-armed for Chinese police. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to report that the government of China is warehousing Uighur protesters in military prisons until party officials develop organ failure, whereupon prisoners are screened for blood/tissue matches and then murdered for their organs, which are removed while the prisoner is still alive." Put in that light you can see the problem with this discussion: that Uighurs (like many other populations in China) are subjected to intense human rights violations does not imply that a monstrous organ harvesting program is being run out of Chinese prisons.
    - malandrew 15y ago
      Totally agree. However, allegations that there is wrongdoing surrounding organ harvesting is nothing new, yet nothing is being done to investigate it, nor is China being proactive in inviting people to come investigate and provide over site to prove that everything is internationally acceptable. The fact that China isn't trying to prove the allegations wrong and that there is willful ignorance among other nations is frightening. People often use the argument, "This can't possibly be true, because it would be very hard to hide such atrocities.", but if anything WWII proved how easy it is to hide such gross atrocities. During World War II, no one really knew what was happening in the concentration camps until the Russians first arrived in the Majdanek camp in July, 1944 for the first time and saw it with their own eyes. Just before they arrived, the Germans spent a lot of effort to try and destroy any evidence of what had been happening. If anything, WWII proves how long people at a distance and with no local knowledge can go without knowing horrible things were occurring. From what I remember what was discovered at the Majdanek camp wasn't even that bad because the Nazis had enough time to partially cover up the gravity of what was being done. AFAIK, it wasn't until Auschwitz was discovered January, 1945, that people truly discovered the gravity of the situation. Allegations like this should be investigated by non-political independent third parties whose primary mission is preventing human rights atrocities. IMHO both humans and other entities should be innocent until proven guilty, but organizational entities, even entire countries, should be subject to investigations into allegations. Right now we have a situation where China isn't innocent, but no one has investigated to see if it might be guilty either.

tptacek 15y ago

Was going to say the same thing. I didn't look at the masthead until I got to the part about the evil Islamic human rights organization that cared a lot about the reporter's Jewish name, whereupon I thought "what the" and, ahh, it's The Weekly Standard. Of course. Let's all be clearheaded about what's going on here: This is an article that says that the Chinese are rounding up protesters and warehousing them in military prisons until party officials show up with organ troubles, whereupon doctors are sent in to take blood from the prisoners to find matches so that those prisoners can be carefully executed (by gunshot) so that their organs can be harvested while the prisoner is still alive. This extraordinarily claim is backed up by... an anonymous source.

malandrew 15y ago
I spent two weeks traveling in Xinjiang in 2006 and everything I saw suggested that it was an occupied territory. The most obvious sign is that the population almost everywhere you traveled were ethnic Uighur, but the police forces were all ethnically Han Chinese. Prior to visiting Xinjiang, I had lived 1 year in Beijing and Handan, Hebei for 6 months. The other detail that caught me off guard is that for 1.5 years, I had not seen a police officer with a gun. Every police officer in the East of the country had a baton, but no gun. In Xinjiang, not only were the police of obviously different ethnic origin, it was not uncommon to see them armed with handguns and occasionally with an assault rifle. I don't know anything really about the issue discussed in the article other than hearsay, but there is no doubt in my mind that Xinjiang is undergoing "ethnic cleansing" by dilution. AFAIK the same is happening in Tibet.
- tptacek 15y ago
  One way of summarizing what you just wrote is: "I spent two weeks traveling in Xinjiang in 2006 and saw only ethnic Han policing the majority Uighur population, often unusually well-armed for Chinese police. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to report that the government of China is warehousing Uighur protesters in military prisons until party officials develop organ failure, whereupon prisoners are screened for blood/tissue matches and then murdered for their organs, which are removed while the prisoner is still alive." Put in that light you can see the problem with this discussion: that Uighurs (like many other populations in China) are subjected to intense human rights violations does not imply that a monstrous organ harvesting program is being run out of Chinese prisons.
  - malandrew 15y ago
    Totally agree. However, allegations that there is wrongdoing surrounding organ harvesting is nothing new, yet nothing is being done to investigate it, nor is China being proactive in inviting people to come investigate and provide over site to prove that everything is internationally acceptable. The fact that China isn't trying to prove the allegations wrong and that there is willful ignorance among other nations is frightening. People often use the argument, "This can't possibly be true, because it would be very hard to hide such atrocities.", but if anything WWII proved how easy it is to hide such gross atrocities. During World War II, no one really knew what was happening in the concentration camps until the Russians first arrived in the Majdanek camp in July, 1944 for the first time and saw it with their own eyes. Just before they arrived, the Germans spent a lot of effort to try and destroy any evidence of what had been happening. If anything, WWII proves how long people at a distance and with no local knowledge can go without knowing horrible things were occurring. From what I remember what was discovered at the Majdanek camp wasn't even that bad because the Nazis had enough time to partially cover up the gravity of what was being done. AFAIK, it wasn't until Auschwitz was discovered January, 1945, that people truly discovered the gravity of the situation. Allegations like this should be investigated by non-political independent third parties whose primary mission is preventing human rights atrocities. IMHO both humans and other entities should be innocent until proven guilty, but organizational entities, even entire countries, should be subject to investigations into allegations. Right now we have a situation where China isn't innocent, but no one has investigated to see if it might be guilty either.