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> They’re going back because the supply chain has eased up and their internally developed hi res radar (“Phoenix”) is reaching production grade, so they no long

by ra7 4y ago

> They’re going back because the supply chain has eased up and their internally developed hi res radar (“Phoenix”) is reaching production grade, so they no longer have to argue Vision is superior to keep shipping units post pandemic. In other words, they lied that vision-only is superior to having a radar, put out a blog post on how Tesla Vision is going to solve FSD and then sold a few hundred thousand cars without radar for over a year.

1letterunixname 4y ago
Tying one hand behind their back in a fight proves only someone's ego is willing to take unnecessary risks than use every opportunity available. Elon is that type of a--hole who would gamble lives to be "right".
- leobg 4y ago
  “Another person’s vanity only bothers us if it goes against our own.” —Nietzsche
  - 1letterunixname 4y ago
    Unfortunately, your trolling attempt is irrelevant to the facts such as being unable to see stationary objects in the road when traveling over 80 mph. Would you prefer a less safe and less capable vehicle to "prove" how "smart" you think you are while killing more passengers and bystanders? I suggest adding something of value in the future rather than try to look smart because you only appear to be a biased fool.
    - leobg 4y ago
      You are calling people a--holes and biased fools. Doesn't look to me at all as if you're interested in a discussion of sensors. My impression is that you have an axe to grind. Hence that quote. It points to the observation that when people get defensive about another person's ego, it usually means they see themselves somehow in a competition with that other person. Jung would have called it projection. Girard would have called it mimetic rivalry. None of that is an excuse for your dismissive attitude and name-calling, which really don't belong on HN.
uxcolumbo 4y ago
Exactly. I think one of Tesla's lead engineers on Lex Fridman’s podcast explained vision is enough and why radar isn’t needed… can’t recall all the details. Just more BS coming out of Elon’s company… he created that culture. I’d not trust anything coming of his mouth or sub-mouths… the information just isn’t reliable. EDIT: Here is the link to the youtube video. The former snr. director giving his reasons why the other sensors are not required https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W1JBAfV4Io https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W1JBAfV4Io
cypress66 4y ago
The article actually quotes Elon saying back when radar was removed, that current radar decreased snr, but a high resolution radar would be better than pure vision. So no lie. This fits perfectly with what he claimed.
- ra7 4y ago
  He claimed just cameras were sufficient for self driving and sold cars based on that, even though they were working on a high resolution radar. Clearly, based on this article they are not sufficient. He also said phantom braking issues would be solved with radar removal. That didn't happen. How many people would have bought the car (or FSD) if they knew a better radar was coming a year down the line that not only helps FSD but also regular Autopilot?
  - grecy 4y ago
    > He claimed just cameras were sufficient for self driving The latest builds of FSD beta prove that to be true. The question now becomes what can be done to make it better, and how much better is required. similarly, humans can clearly drive vehicles "sufficiently" after consuming alcohol. Countries disagree on the amount, and the definition of "sufficient".
    - ra7 4y ago
      > The latest builds of FSD beta prove that to be true. Unless the latest builds of FSD beta work without requiring a driver, it doesn’t prove anything to be true. To be a self driving car, it has to actually work without anyone in the driver’s seat. That’s literally the definition.
      - grecy 4y ago
        It works a lot better than most people realize. Obviously there is a person in this seat, but it would have done the same thing if there wasn't... https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1599146605156130816 https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1599146605156130816
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Profits and independent safety assessments don’t lie. They made the right call.
- ra7 4y ago
  Euro NCAP doesn’t assess FSD safety, which was the reason they discontinued radar. If they’ve now decided they need radar, it means they lied in their blog post. They wouldn’t need it again if they thought it was safe without one. They sure made profits though.

by ra7 4y ago

1letterunixname 4y ago

Tying one hand behind their back in a fight proves only someone's ego is willing to take unnecessary risks than use every opportunity available. Elon is that type of a--hole who would gamble lives to be "right".

leobg 4y ago
“Another person’s vanity only bothers us if it goes against our own.” —Nietzsche
- 1letterunixname 4y ago
  Unfortunately, your trolling attempt is irrelevant to the facts such as being unable to see stationary objects in the road when traveling over 80 mph. Would you prefer a less safe and less capable vehicle to "prove" how "smart" you think you are while killing more passengers and bystanders? I suggest adding something of value in the future rather than try to look smart because you only appear to be a biased fool.
  - leobg 4y ago
    You are calling people a--holes and biased fools. Doesn't look to me at all as if you're interested in a discussion of sensors. My impression is that you have an axe to grind. Hence that quote. It points to the observation that when people get defensive about another person's ego, it usually means they see themselves somehow in a competition with that other person. Jung would have called it projection. Girard would have called it mimetic rivalry. None of that is an excuse for your dismissive attitude and name-calling, which really don't belong on HN.

uxcolumbo 4y ago

Exactly. I think one of Tesla's lead engineers on Lex Fridman’s podcast explained vision is enough and why radar isn’t needed… can’t recall all the details. Just more BS coming out of Elon’s company… he created that culture. I’d not trust anything coming of his mouth or sub-mouths… the information just isn’t reliable. EDIT: Here is the link to the youtube video. The former snr. director giving his reasons why the other sensors are not required https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W1JBAfV4Io https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W1JBAfV4Io

cypress66 4y ago

The article actually quotes Elon saying back when radar was removed, that current radar decreased snr, but a high resolution radar would be better than pure vision. So no lie. This fits perfectly with what he claimed.

ra7 4y ago
He claimed just cameras were sufficient for self driving and sold cars based on that, even though they were working on a high resolution radar. Clearly, based on this article they are not sufficient. He also said phantom braking issues would be solved with radar removal. That didn't happen. How many people would have bought the car (or FSD) if they knew a better radar was coming a year down the line that not only helps FSD but also regular Autopilot?
- grecy 4y ago
  > He claimed just cameras were sufficient for self driving The latest builds of FSD beta prove that to be true. The question now becomes what can be done to make it better, and how much better is required. similarly, humans can clearly drive vehicles "sufficiently" after consuming alcohol. Countries disagree on the amount, and the definition of "sufficient".
  - ra7 4y ago
    > The latest builds of FSD beta prove that to be true. Unless the latest builds of FSD beta work without requiring a driver, it doesn’t prove anything to be true. To be a self driving car, it has to actually work without anyone in the driver’s seat. That’s literally the definition.
    - grecy 4y ago
      It works a lot better than most people realize. Obviously there is a person in this seat, but it would have done the same thing if there wasn't... https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1599146605156130816 https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1599146605156130816

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Profits and independent safety assessments don’t lie. They made the right call.

ra7 4y ago
Euro NCAP doesn’t assess FSD safety, which was the reason they discontinued radar. If they’ve now decided they need radar, it means they lied in their blog post. They wouldn’t need it again if they thought it was safe without one. They sure made profits though.