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I think low code and AI have an incredible productive future. ChatGPT can create simple python programs right now. Imagine a few years from now, where it can ou

I think low code and AI have an incredible productive future. ChatGPT can create simple python programs right now. Imagine a few years from now, where it can output a low code program; that will be game changing since there won't be a need to have a software engineer to deal with the code. It's coming and it's coming fast.

mrits 4y ago
I don't see the benefit of creating code with ChatGPT. I can already get code for next to nothing by outsourcing.
- arcturus17 4y ago
  Next to nothing eh. Tell us more about the technological complexity of what you're building... Because I'm already seeing good dev shops in India charge $30 and upwards, and while that's "nothing" compared to US salaries, it's non-negligible (and it has trade-offs).
denimnerd42 4y ago
sounds like optimism we saw with self driving cars
- WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
  True, cars may never drive themselves but I guarantee that at some point we'll have vehicles that have very specific functions self drive. I can even say that cars that self drive in the highway only are just around the corner. No code won't fill all needs but they have a place in business.
debarshri 4y ago
Everyone is talking about chatgpt and code generation this week. I think the code generated with chatgpt might be 90% accurate but how confident would you be to deploy that in production. We know empirically that last 10% can take decades to get it right. Using gpt to generate a blob of content is different from using gpt to generate code.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> I think low code and AI have an incredible productive future. ChatGPT can create simple python programs right now. Imagine a few years from now, where it can output a low code program; that will be game changing since there won't be a need to have a software engineer to deal with the code. It's coming and it's coming fast. > Everyone is talking about chatgpt and code generation this week. I think the code generated with chatgpt might be 90% accurate but how confident would you be to deploy that in production. I haven't been paying close attention, but all the code I've seen it generate is also very simple -- like the kind of stuff someone could write after taking an intro programming class, prompted by a pretty detailed specification. Modern-day software engineers basically write detailed specifications, they don't translate specifications into "code." Whether you're writing "AI prompts" or Python, it'll still be software engineering. Though my gut feel is software engineering by prompts will feel like typing with a wet noodle to hit the keys.
  - debarshri 4y ago
    Most complex one I saw this weekend was this [1], the point I'm trying to make is the even if you make generate complex stuff, if would take decades where we deploy this kind of workloads in real world scenarios. [1] https://towardsdatascience.com/i-used-chatgpt-to-create-an-entire-ai-application-on-aws-5b90e34c3d50 https://towardsdatascience.com/i-used-chatgpt-to-create-an-e...
- adolph 4y ago
  Maybe it would be better to use AI on the test side of TDD. Have the AI listen to the requirements and write tests. Have the human write code to the tests and update the nonsensical parts of AI generated tests.
CodeyWhizzBang 4y ago
The problem is, creating the code isn't really the bottleneck. It's the stakeholder negotiation and conversations and understanding the business problem and updating the site when the business problem changes and updating the wording and changing the site because legal are unhappy with it then changing it back because the CEO overruled them and so on and so on.
- zubairq 4y ago
  So spot on! +100 this!
acedTrex 4y ago
since when has writing the code been the hard part/blocker for this stuff lol
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
What people aren't seeing is that this opens coding to a large number of people that only need minimum skills to create a solution. A determined business user can put together an app that takes an expert now. No code is targeted towards the users that have a relatively simple app but don"t have the skills, budget or time to learn a programming language. I've known people that have put together the needs requirements and design an app but don't have the skills to write it. That's the ideal market no code is aiming to get. Software Engineers will have their place but no code and AI is aiming for the masses.
- maxbaines 4y ago
  I think this is exactly where the value is - I commented similar on this thread (didn't see you comment..)
- arcturus17 4y ago
  Low-code has been promised for the masses for ages, and has barely fulfilled that promise. I have seen a lot of non-techies come up from solutions, from websites or eCommerce stores, to little Zapier integrations, to a simple CRUD system with Airtable. Low-code is great for these use cases, but they're really simple. Anything beyond trivial complexity, these people generally stall and they need to hire designers or programmers. Hey, it's fantastic for that first 1% and that's already a lot, I'll give you that. I actually think low-code will see a resurgence serving "almost technical" people such as tech business analysts, and also, drum roll... programmers. There is a current generation of maturing low-code tools (ex: Retool, PowerApps, Plasmic, Builder.io) which allow tech people to combine low-code and code as needed and which programmers may actually find attractive. As for AI (ex: GPT), the main output it provides is code. It's nearly impossible to operate it at present for code-generation tasks without knowing how to code. Yes I think it's inevitable we will see a tool that blends current low-code graphical programming with NLP inputs. But it sounds very complex to make and I think it is likely to face the same base problems that low-code has.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
arcturus17 4y ago
Are you a programmer? Or are you basing this off the results that programmers have been getting out of the tool?
- WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
  I'm a programmer that has been in many situations where I've had to tell business users that I don't have the capacity to work on their project even though it's relatively simple. That's why I believe no code will be a great asset to companies.
  - arcturus17 4y ago
    As I said in my other comment, I agree that's the main use case for low-code. But I think it's largely going to be programmers or really techy business analysts doing the job, at least in the shorter term (next ~10 years). Also, a thing people not considering with AI-assisted coding is that if it really makes programmers more productive, there'll be more chances to tend to more projects.
YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
What good is a chatbot that can write code if nobody knows how to maintain the system that code runs on? In the time it takes to learn how to use AWS and administer servers to the point where you're not a massive liability, you could have learned JavaScript and Python from scratch (and learned actual Scratch while you're at it).

mrits 4y ago

I don't see the benefit of creating code with ChatGPT. I can already get code for next to nothing by outsourcing.

arcturus17 4y ago
Next to nothing eh. Tell us more about the technological complexity of what you're building... Because I'm already seeing good dev shops in India charge $30 and upwards, and while that's "nothing" compared to US salaries, it's non-negligible (and it has trade-offs).

denimnerd42 4y ago

sounds like optimism we saw with self driving cars

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
True, cars may never drive themselves but I guarantee that at some point we'll have vehicles that have very specific functions self drive. I can even say that cars that self drive in the highway only are just around the corner. No code won't fill all needs but they have a place in business.

debarshri 4y ago

Everyone is talking about chatgpt and code generation this week. I think the code generated with chatgpt might be 90% accurate but how confident would you be to deploy that in production. We know empirically that last 10% can take decades to get it right. Using gpt to generate a blob of content is different from using gpt to generate code.

tablespoon 4y ago
>> I think low code and AI have an incredible productive future. ChatGPT can create simple python programs right now. Imagine a few years from now, where it can output a low code program; that will be game changing since there won't be a need to have a software engineer to deal with the code. It's coming and it's coming fast. > Everyone is talking about chatgpt and code generation this week. I think the code generated with chatgpt might be 90% accurate but how confident would you be to deploy that in production. I haven't been paying close attention, but all the code I've seen it generate is also very simple -- like the kind of stuff someone could write after taking an intro programming class, prompted by a pretty detailed specification. Modern-day software engineers basically write detailed specifications, they don't translate specifications into "code." Whether you're writing "AI prompts" or Python, it'll still be software engineering. Though my gut feel is software engineering by prompts will feel like typing with a wet noodle to hit the keys.
- debarshri 4y ago
  Most complex one I saw this weekend was this [1], the point I'm trying to make is the even if you make generate complex stuff, if would take decades where we deploy this kind of workloads in real world scenarios. [1] https://towardsdatascience.com/i-used-chatgpt-to-create-an-entire-ai-application-on-aws-5b90e34c3d50 https://towardsdatascience.com/i-used-chatgpt-to-create-an-e...
adolph 4y ago
Maybe it would be better to use AI on the test side of TDD. Have the AI listen to the requirements and write tests. Have the human write code to the tests and update the nonsensical parts of AI generated tests.

CodeyWhizzBang 4y ago

The problem is, creating the code isn't really the bottleneck. It's the stakeholder negotiation and conversations and understanding the business problem and updating the site when the business problem changes and updating the wording and changing the site because legal are unhappy with it then changing it back because the CEO overruled them and so on and so on.

zubairq 4y ago
So spot on! +100 this!

acedTrex 4y ago

since when has writing the code been the hard part/blocker for this stuff lol

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

What people aren't seeing is that this opens coding to a large number of people that only need minimum skills to create a solution. A determined business user can put together an app that takes an expert now. No code is targeted towards the users that have a relatively simple app but don"t have the skills, budget or time to learn a programming language. I've known people that have put together the needs requirements and design an app but don't have the skills to write it. That's the ideal market no code is aiming to get. Software Engineers will have their place but no code and AI is aiming for the masses.

maxbaines 4y ago
I think this is exactly where the value is - I commented similar on this thread (didn't see you comment..)
arcturus17 4y ago
Low-code has been promised for the masses for ages, and has barely fulfilled that promise. I have seen a lot of non-techies come up from solutions, from websites or eCommerce stores, to little Zapier integrations, to a simple CRUD system with Airtable. Low-code is great for these use cases, but they're really simple. Anything beyond trivial complexity, these people generally stall and they need to hire designers or programmers. Hey, it's fantastic for that first 1% and that's already a lot, I'll give you that. I actually think low-code will see a resurgence serving "almost technical" people such as tech business analysts, and also, drum roll... programmers. There is a current generation of maturing low-code tools (ex: Retool, PowerApps, Plasmic, Builder.io) which allow tech people to combine low-code and code as needed and which programmers may actually find attractive. As for AI (ex: GPT), the main output it provides is code. It's nearly impossible to operate it at present for code-generation tasks without knowing how to code. Yes I think it's inevitable we will see a tool that blends current low-code graphical programming with NLP inputs. But it sounds very complex to make and I think it is likely to face the same base problems that low-code has.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

arcturus17 4y ago

Are you a programmer? Or are you basing this off the results that programmers have been getting out of the tool?

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
I'm a programmer that has been in many situations where I've had to tell business users that I don't have the capacity to work on their project even though it's relatively simple. That's why I believe no code will be a great asset to companies.
- arcturus17 4y ago
  As I said in my other comment, I agree that's the main use case for low-code. But I think it's largely going to be programmers or really techy business analysts doing the job, at least in the shorter term (next ~10 years). Also, a thing people not considering with AI-assisted coding is that if it really makes programmers more productive, there'll be more chances to tend to more projects.

YurgenJurgensen 4y ago

What good is a chatbot that can write code if nobody knows how to maintain the system that code runs on? In the time it takes to learn how to use AWS and administer servers to the point where you're not a massive liability, you could have learned JavaScript and Python from scratch (and learned actual Scratch while you're at it).