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The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I got one of the first CAT s60 phones when they came out and

The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I got one of the first CAT s60 phones when they came out and tolerated all the android spyware on it because I really liked having a properly ruggedized phone. Got about 4 years out of it. The flir camera I would say I used most often at night for finding my dogs poop to pick up on neighbours lawns in the dark, but I used it on boats to find moisture, motorcycle engine seals to find gasket problems, found contractor fraud where they didn't bother putting insulation behind drywall, and places around windows for caulking to reduce heat loss, heat on horses legs that indicated inflammation, lack of current on wires in my basement. Mostly novelty, but handy. The battery became too flaky to use as a regular phone, so I keep it in my toolbox and use it as a stud finder behind drywall and used to find where animals were getting into the attic of the house. Next test is for rim leaks on car tires. It has been a small time saver, and a fun conversation piece. But yeah, military thermal imaging to find dog poop at night was most common use case.

legitster 4y ago
All things considered, 4 years is pretty good! Someone explained to me it's more of a supply chain thing than planned obsolescence. Phone technology and batteries specifically have pretty short production lives - keeping a battery in production and in stock for long periods of time can be crippling to your product line when the competitors come out with 10% denser batteries every year.
- ThemalSpan 4y ago
  I think we can all agree that maximizing profit is a cause, while also acknowledging that the situation is not ideal. There are many solutions to this self-imposed problem, like standardizing the battery interfaces. I agree most company's have no incentive to do that. I think those incentives should be put in place though.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  So sell compatible size higher density batteries. Actual disposable batteries (remember those?) have improved dramatically over the decades but you can still put a brand new AA battery loaded with the latest 2022 tech into a remote control from the 50s and expect it to work.
  - SideQuark 4y ago
    >Actual disposable batteries they have the same form factor, and they have not changed much over decades in capability and certainly not size. Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size. When phone batteries get higher density, then it's likely a readeoff between adding more other features and keeping the same battery size - and as other features change, so do battery needs. The rapid evolution of phone tech, in every aspect, makes it cheaper (and wiser) to re-eval each piece quickly, or you get beat in the market place. Maybe in decades this will settle down, like it took for the disposable batteries to standardize over decades...
    - KronisLV 4y ago
      > Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size. It would be nice if that wasn't the case. I've seen power tools from certain companies adopt the same battery type across multiple of their tools, so that they are interchangeable. I can imagine something like that happening industry-wide with a bit more lawmaking, like happened with USB types. Actually, it would be even better if we had a few common phone battery standards and every manufacturer had to use those (ideally with removable batteries). This might mean that phones would have to be built with the batteries in mind, not vice versa, which doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Then again, personally I wouldn't even mind if there were like 10-20 common phone form factors in the first place.
      - radicalbyte 4y ago
        > I've seen power tools from certain companies adopt the same battery type across multiple of their tools That's because electric power tools are sold as a platform: you choose a brand and buy in to their platform. For example I mainly use a driver + drill so bought in to Milwaukee. Ended up buying a lot of other kit from them too.
      - rlt 4y ago
        > with a bit more lawmaking No thanks. Things like this almost always have unintended consequences.
- Sakos 4y ago
  > All things considered, 4 years is pretty good! 4 years would be fine if you voluntarily upgrade because a newer model improves over what you have in an appreciable way. 4 years isn't fine if the device meets your needs and the only reason you have to replace it is because of the battery wearing out.
akita-ken 4y ago
All those use-cases you've described actually seem really practical, especially the fraud detection. Being able to detect things that would otherwise be invisible or require physical contact to ascertain already makes it a worthwhile EDC tool in my opinion.
- jcims 4y ago
  I’ve got a Seek Thermal attachment from my iPhone I got on cyber Monday a few years ago. Once you have one you find all sorts of uses for them.
matthewaveryusa 4y ago
I have a flir as well and I've used it a lot while insulating my house, but the coolest thing I've done was find the exact location of a wasp nest between my walls and annihilating it by injecting a pesticide directly in the middle of the nest with a tiny drill hole. It seems gimmicky at first but it's been a real money-saver.
- jstrong 4y ago
  I love stories about smiting wasps
  - hnbad 4y ago
    Fun fact: in most of Germany this would have been a crime with a penalty of up to tens of thousands in EUR depending on the exact species.
    - jstrong 4y ago
      sounds more like a repugnant fact to me
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - throw827474737 4y ago
        Very ignorant! One can avoid wasps initially, or also later move them more peacefully. They are very important pollinators (we lack more&more) and even have more cool duties. Not sure about your wasps over there, the annoyance factor of the wasps in Germany is usually heavily overdramatized and human arrogance at its best.
        jstrong 4y ago
        "yeah, what did wasps ever do to you?" attack the shit out of me for no good reason!
coder543 4y ago
I don't understand why everyone is acting like replacement batteries are unavailable. Here's an amazon link to a variety of options: https://www.amazon.com/CAT-S60-Cell-Phone-Replacement-Batteries/s?k=CAT+S60&rh=n%3A7073959011 https://www.amazon.com/CAT-S60-Cell-Phone-Replacement-Batter...
- kvakvs 4y ago
  The statement about battery not being replaceable is false. They are replaceable. But the phone body is sealed to deliver the water and dust resistance rating from its technical specs, so opening it is an entire new adventure in itself.
  - sllabres 4y ago
    Water resistant (e.g. 30 min / 1 m) mobile phones with exchangeable batteries were quite common. They had easy to procure LiIon batteries which could replaced even by a clumsy person in minutes. Would prefer that to a watertight phone with non replaceable batteries as aging or dying batteries are more common in my experience than my desire to go on a dive with my phone.
    - minhazm 4y ago
      > Water resistant (e.g. 30 min / 1 m) mobile phones with exchangeable batteries were quite common I wouldn't say they were common, at least not for android smartphones. The first water resistant android phone was the Motorola Defy[1] in 2010. For Samsung they had the S4 Active and then the S5 had some water resistance. But then the S6 removed support for replaceable batteries. So the only Samsung phones with easily replaceable batteries and any water resistance were the S4 Active, S5 Active and the S5. I think you're right that IP67 (30min / 1 meter) is probably achievable but I think most people prefer the better water resistance and by the time their phone battery degrades sufficiently they usually want a new phone. Additionally it's already possible to get your battery replaced. At least Apple will replace your phone battery going back to the 5S for $49 up to $99 for current models. I prefer this model where I have a trustworthy place to get the battery serviced that will preserve the water resistance for a somewhat reasonable price. I tried to look at the battery replacement cost for Samsung phones but couldn't find it, so maybe that's not a service they offer directly or it's just difficult to find. [1] https://www.androidauthority.com/first-water-resistant-android-phone-1153031/ https://www.androidauthority.com/first-water-resistant-andro...
graderjs 4y ago
FLIR camera should also be able to pick up some UFO/UAP in the skies as well. Yay! Now nearly everyone can see some.
- andai 4y ago
  Do satellites show up on infrared cameras? Or are you talking about some sort of aircraft?
  - sllabres 4y ago
    Cant say for devices with higher resolution and stronger magnification (e.g. for hunting) but i don't think so too. Definitely not for the resolution and magnification we are talking here.
- sllabres 4y ago
  Nice idea, but I think for THIS application the FOV is to large and the resolution (160*120?) is to low. Of course the extraterrestrial knew that and therefore allowed the integration of the lapton chip into the phone <8-) I use a dedicated thermal camera with bit higher resolution but higher FPS. As others have written they are quite useful as you see thing (even not ET) you could have measured with an IR thermometer if you knew they were there.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    > Of course the extraterrestrial knew that and therefore allowed the integration of the lapton chip into the phone <8-) That's silly. The real reason is that the ITAR prohibits you from being able to get a higher-resolution thermal camera, which is one of several laws implementing a complex, global ban on technologies that would let regular people spot the aliens. You can thank a secret UN subcommittee for that; they've botched negotiations with aliens so badly that our governments are now forced to do the "hiding from people" work for them.
- saargrin 4y ago
  not really.. low resolution and focused in short range i dont even get a blip when looking at airplanes with my thermal camera
fijiaarone 4y ago
It’s ok to have a camera that is not a telephone
- andai 4y ago
  I recently found myself avoiding my phone for various reasons. At home I'd rather get work done (wfh) and I prefer to leave it at home when I go for walks. But my phone is also my camera, so now whenever I see something beautiful, I am unable to photograph it. I read the other day that compact camera sales had dropped by 98%. I guess I'm one of the 2% that actually has a need for one now.
  - milsorgen 4y ago
    Grab something used with enough megapixels. I used an old Canon A590IS for years, even after I had a slew of Nikon dSLRs. I've found random compacts over 10MP for less than 20 dollars while thrifting. Completely competent images in day light tbqh. Low light and video capabilities are what really lags when compared to more recent camera tech but I've always limitation breeds creativity.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    Just use airplane mode. I use it all the time, for this purpose exactly. Sometimes I am just not available - people have to accept that.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  It's ok, but it does drastically reduce its utility. Conversely, anything that can be put into smartphone becomes much more useful. It often makes a difference between just having a tool for some odd job vs. gaining a capability. The reason is simple: you always have your phone on you, or near you. It's the most easily accessible piece of electronics, and - if you're storage limited - the last one you're likely to leave behind. There is a generic social acceptance of everyone having a phone on them (even if stashed in a pocket). A FLIR camera as a separate device? I'm unlikely to carry it with me unless I have a specific reason, and people will look at me weird if I walk around with one. A smartphone-attachable FLIR camera? It's still a hassle to carry, there's a good chance I'll leave one behind (comparable to a bluetooth headset). A FLIR camera built into smartphone? On me all the time, everywhere, and always ready to use in random, unpredictable situations. And yes, it's the same reason why regular smartphone cameras all but killed the compact camera as a product. Having a tool always on you expands possible use cases so much it offsets for suboptimal performance/form factor.
nicolas_t 4y ago
I'm actually considering buying a IR camera for testing insulation (I have a contractor working in my apartment and due to various instance of clear fraud from him I have no confidence or trust in him anymore). Would a HTI HT-102 be enough or is it better to get a better sensor?
- budzes 4y ago
  32x32 sensor is useless. You need at least 160x120px. Cell phone attachment cameras have compatibility problems. For example, find reviews for Flir One Pro. If the cell cannot find the camera, then it's pretty useless.
- m463 4y ago
  I remember a few years back you could buy the cheapest FLIR camera and upgrade it to the expensive model with a firmware hack.
kypro 4y ago
> The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I thought the move away from easily removable cases and batteries was more for waterproofing reasons? Plus, I'm guessing the battery can be replaced, just not by the average user. I'm sure you could get it replaced if you're willing to pay a repair fee.
- almog 4y ago
  It doesn't have to prevent it from being waterproof, see for example Samsung Galaxy XCover 6 Pro which has removable battery and IP68 rating. I really wish phone manufacturers started making flagship-like phones with a removable battery.
m463 4y ago
I'm sort of reminded of how cellphone cameras became used for selfies. I wonder what other use cases previously "serious" technology will be used for. I remember someone had a magnet of some sort embedded in their finger and could detect current fluctuations in underground electrical systems underneath a city sidewalk.

legitster 4y ago

All things considered, 4 years is pretty good! Someone explained to me it's more of a supply chain thing than planned obsolescence. Phone technology and batteries specifically have pretty short production lives - keeping a battery in production and in stock for long periods of time can be crippling to your product line when the competitors come out with 10% denser batteries every year.

ThemalSpan 4y ago
I think we can all agree that maximizing profit is a cause, while also acknowledging that the situation is not ideal. There are many solutions to this self-imposed problem, like standardizing the battery interfaces. I agree most company's have no incentive to do that. I think those incentives should be put in place though.
Fatnino 4y ago
So sell compatible size higher density batteries. Actual disposable batteries (remember those?) have improved dramatically over the decades but you can still put a brand new AA battery loaded with the latest 2022 tech into a remote control from the 50s and expect it to work.
- SideQuark 4y ago
  >Actual disposable batteries they have the same form factor, and they have not changed much over decades in capability and certainly not size. Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size. When phone batteries get higher density, then it's likely a readeoff between adding more other features and keeping the same battery size - and as other features change, so do battery needs. The rapid evolution of phone tech, in every aspect, makes it cheaper (and wiser) to re-eval each piece quickly, or you get beat in the market place. Maybe in decades this will settle down, like it took for the disposable batteries to standardize over decades...
  - KronisLV 4y ago
    > Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size. It would be nice if that wasn't the case. I've seen power tools from certain companies adopt the same battery type across multiple of their tools, so that they are interchangeable. I can imagine something like that happening industry-wide with a bit more lawmaking, like happened with USB types. Actually, it would be even better if we had a few common phone battery standards and every manufacturer had to use those (ideally with removable batteries). This might mean that phones would have to be built with the batteries in mind, not vice versa, which doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Then again, personally I wouldn't even mind if there were like 10-20 common phone form factors in the first place.
    - radicalbyte 4y ago
      > I've seen power tools from certain companies adopt the same battery type across multiple of their tools That's because electric power tools are sold as a platform: you choose a brand and buy in to their platform. For example I mainly use a driver + drill so bought in to Milwaukee. Ended up buying a lot of other kit from them too.
    - rlt 4y ago
      > with a bit more lawmaking No thanks. Things like this almost always have unintended consequences.
Sakos 4y ago
> All things considered, 4 years is pretty good! 4 years would be fine if you voluntarily upgrade because a newer model improves over what you have in an appreciable way. 4 years isn't fine if the device meets your needs and the only reason you have to replace it is because of the battery wearing out.

akita-ken 4y ago

All those use-cases you've described actually seem really practical, especially the fraud detection. Being able to detect things that would otherwise be invisible or require physical contact to ascertain already makes it a worthwhile EDC tool in my opinion.

jcims 4y ago
I’ve got a Seek Thermal attachment from my iPhone I got on cyber Monday a few years ago. Once you have one you find all sorts of uses for them.

matthewaveryusa 4y ago

I have a flir as well and I've used it a lot while insulating my house, but the coolest thing I've done was find the exact location of a wasp nest between my walls and annihilating it by injecting a pesticide directly in the middle of the nest with a tiny drill hole. It seems gimmicky at first but it's been a real money-saver.

jstrong 4y ago
I love stories about smiting wasps
- hnbad 4y ago
  Fun fact: in most of Germany this would have been a crime with a penalty of up to tens of thousands in EUR depending on the exact species.
  - jstrong 4y ago
    sounds more like a repugnant fact to me
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - throw827474737 4y ago
      Very ignorant! One can avoid wasps initially, or also later move them more peacefully. They are very important pollinators (we lack more&more) and even have more cool duties. Not sure about your wasps over there, the annoyance factor of the wasps in Germany is usually heavily overdramatized and human arrogance at its best.
      - jstrong 4y ago
        "yeah, what did wasps ever do to you?" attack the shit out of me for no good reason!

coder543 4y ago

I don't understand why everyone is acting like replacement batteries are unavailable. Here's an amazon link to a variety of options: https://www.amazon.com/CAT-S60-Cell-Phone-Replacement-Batteries/s?k=CAT+S60&rh=n%3A7073959011 https://www.amazon.com/CAT-S60-Cell-Phone-Replacement-Batter...

kvakvs 4y ago
The statement about battery not being replaceable is false. They are replaceable. But the phone body is sealed to deliver the water and dust resistance rating from its technical specs, so opening it is an entire new adventure in itself.
- sllabres 4y ago
  Water resistant (e.g. 30 min / 1 m) mobile phones with exchangeable batteries were quite common. They had easy to procure LiIon batteries which could replaced even by a clumsy person in minutes. Would prefer that to a watertight phone with non replaceable batteries as aging or dying batteries are more common in my experience than my desire to go on a dive with my phone.
  - minhazm 4y ago
    > Water resistant (e.g. 30 min / 1 m) mobile phones with exchangeable batteries were quite common I wouldn't say they were common, at least not for android smartphones. The first water resistant android phone was the Motorola Defy[1] in 2010. For Samsung they had the S4 Active and then the S5 had some water resistance. But then the S6 removed support for replaceable batteries. So the only Samsung phones with easily replaceable batteries and any water resistance were the S4 Active, S5 Active and the S5. I think you're right that IP67 (30min / 1 meter) is probably achievable but I think most people prefer the better water resistance and by the time their phone battery degrades sufficiently they usually want a new phone. Additionally it's already possible to get your battery replaced. At least Apple will replace your phone battery going back to the 5S for $49 up to $99 for current models. I prefer this model where I have a trustworthy place to get the battery serviced that will preserve the water resistance for a somewhat reasonable price. I tried to look at the battery replacement cost for Samsung phones but couldn't find it, so maybe that's not a service they offer directly or it's just difficult to find. [1] https://www.androidauthority.com/first-water-resistant-android-phone-1153031/ https://www.androidauthority.com/first-water-resistant-andro...

graderjs 4y ago

FLIR camera should also be able to pick up some UFO/UAP in the skies as well. Yay! Now nearly everyone can see some.

andai 4y ago
Do satellites show up on infrared cameras? Or are you talking about some sort of aircraft?
- sllabres 4y ago
  Cant say for devices with higher resolution and stronger magnification (e.g. for hunting) but i don't think so too. Definitely not for the resolution and magnification we are talking here.
sllabres 4y ago
Nice idea, but I think for THIS application the FOV is to large and the resolution (160*120?) is to low. Of course the extraterrestrial knew that and therefore allowed the integration of the lapton chip into the phone <8-) I use a dedicated thermal camera with bit higher resolution but higher FPS. As others have written they are quite useful as you see thing (even not ET) you could have measured with an IR thermometer if you knew they were there.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  > Of course the extraterrestrial knew that and therefore allowed the integration of the lapton chip into the phone <8-) That's silly. The real reason is that the ITAR prohibits you from being able to get a higher-resolution thermal camera, which is one of several laws implementing a complex, global ban on technologies that would let regular people spot the aliens. You can thank a secret UN subcommittee for that; they've botched negotiations with aliens so badly that our governments are now forced to do the "hiding from people" work for them.
saargrin 4y ago
not really.. low resolution and focused in short range i dont even get a blip when looking at airplanes with my thermal camera

fijiaarone 4y ago

It’s ok to have a camera that is not a telephone

andai 4y ago
I recently found myself avoiding my phone for various reasons. At home I'd rather get work done (wfh) and I prefer to leave it at home when I go for walks. But my phone is also my camera, so now whenever I see something beautiful, I am unable to photograph it. I read the other day that compact camera sales had dropped by 98%. I guess I'm one of the 2% that actually has a need for one now.
- milsorgen 4y ago
  Grab something used with enough megapixels. I used an old Canon A590IS for years, even after I had a slew of Nikon dSLRs. I've found random compacts over 10MP for less than 20 dollars while thrifting. Completely competent images in day light tbqh. Low light and video capabilities are what really lags when compared to more recent camera tech but I've always limitation breeds creativity.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  Just use airplane mode. I use it all the time, for this purpose exactly. Sometimes I am just not available - people have to accept that.
TeMPOraL 4y ago
It's ok, but it does drastically reduce its utility. Conversely, anything that can be put into smartphone becomes much more useful. It often makes a difference between just having a tool for some odd job vs. gaining a capability. The reason is simple: you always have your phone on you, or near you. It's the most easily accessible piece of electronics, and - if you're storage limited - the last one you're likely to leave behind. There is a generic social acceptance of everyone having a phone on them (even if stashed in a pocket). A FLIR camera as a separate device? I'm unlikely to carry it with me unless I have a specific reason, and people will look at me weird if I walk around with one. A smartphone-attachable FLIR camera? It's still a hassle to carry, there's a good chance I'll leave one behind (comparable to a bluetooth headset). A FLIR camera built into smartphone? On me all the time, everywhere, and always ready to use in random, unpredictable situations. And yes, it's the same reason why regular smartphone cameras all but killed the compact camera as a product. Having a tool always on you expands possible use cases so much it offsets for suboptimal performance/form factor.

nicolas_t 4y ago

I'm actually considering buying a IR camera for testing insulation (I have a contractor working in my apartment and due to various instance of clear fraud from him I have no confidence or trust in him anymore). Would a HTI HT-102 be enough or is it better to get a better sensor?

budzes 4y ago
32x32 sensor is useless. You need at least 160x120px. Cell phone attachment cameras have compatibility problems. For example, find reviews for Flir One Pro. If the cell cannot find the camera, then it's pretty useless.
m463 4y ago
I remember a few years back you could buy the cheapest FLIR camera and upgrade it to the expensive model with a firmware hack.

kypro 4y ago

> The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I thought the move away from easily removable cases and batteries was more for waterproofing reasons? Plus, I'm guessing the battery can be replaced, just not by the average user. I'm sure you could get it replaced if you're willing to pay a repair fee.

almog 4y ago
It doesn't have to prevent it from being waterproof, see for example Samsung Galaxy XCover 6 Pro which has removable battery and IP68 rating. I really wish phone manufacturers started making flagship-like phones with a removable battery.

m463 4y ago

I'm sort of reminded of how cellphone cameras became used for selfies. I wonder what other use cases previously "serious" technology will be used for. I remember someone had a magnet of some sort embedded in their finger and could detect current fluctuations in underground electrical systems underneath a city sidewalk.