4 ms·

"limitless indulgence of the appetites and desires" has a different word. That's not freedom, that's called debauchery and has absolutely nothing to do with "li

"limitless indulgence of the appetites and desires" has a different word. That's not freedom, that's called debauchery and has absolutely nothing to do with "liberalism" in the political science meaning of the term.

nordsieck 4y ago
> "limitless indulgence of the appetites and desires" has a different word. That's not freedom, that's called debauchery and has absolutely nothing to do with "liberalism" in the political science meaning of the term. Could you explain more? From what I can tell, there is no inherent separation between freedom and debauchery aside from someone's judgement about whether particular choices where good for the person who made them.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  I'm not the parent, but I assume it's along the lines of a pretty famous quote by pope JP2: "Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." I think I agree with this on a certain level, but also debauchery is fun and can be useful.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  I enjoy some debauchery as much as or more than the next guy, but clearly the difference between freedom and debauchery is that people don't automatically go for debauchery just because they can, because we still have societal norms that most people follow most of the time. But we're free because we get to make that choice for ourselves.
  - GauntletWizard 4y ago
    Quite frankly, you're assuming facts not in evidence. An awful lot of people will go full debauchery; not everyone, but enough to be a problem.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      "People don't automatically go for debauchery because they can" and "no people go for debauchery" are not the same statement. You're constructing a strawman.
r00fus 4y ago
The more apt words would be hedonist/libertine.
- el_nahual 4y ago
  right! I was struggling to translate "libertine" into the noun related to the act itself. ie, free -> freedom; hedonist -> hedonism; libertine -> ? In romance languages there's a word "libertinaje", but the best translation I could find into english was debauchery which I agree has too many connotations of "partying." Wantonness perhaps?

nordsieck 4y ago

> "limitless indulgence of the appetites and desires" has a different word. That's not freedom, that's called debauchery and has absolutely nothing to do with "liberalism" in the political science meaning of the term. Could you explain more? From what I can tell, there is no inherent separation between freedom and debauchery aside from someone's judgement about whether particular choices where good for the person who made them.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
I'm not the parent, but I assume it's along the lines of a pretty famous quote by pope JP2: "Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." I think I agree with this on a certain level, but also debauchery is fun and can be useful.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
I enjoy some debauchery as much as or more than the next guy, but clearly the difference between freedom and debauchery is that people don't automatically go for debauchery just because they can, because we still have societal norms that most people follow most of the time. But we're free because we get to make that choice for ourselves.
- GauntletWizard 4y ago
  Quite frankly, you're assuming facts not in evidence. An awful lot of people will go full debauchery; not everyone, but enough to be a problem.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    "People don't automatically go for debauchery because they can" and "no people go for debauchery" are not the same statement. You're constructing a strawman.

r00fus 4y ago

The more apt words would be hedonist/libertine.

el_nahual 4y ago
right! I was struggling to translate "libertine" into the noun related to the act itself. ie, free -> freedom; hedonist -> hedonism; libertine -> ? In romance languages there's a word "libertinaje", but the best translation I could find into english was debauchery which I agree has too many connotations of "partying." Wantonness perhaps?