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> How about all the kids suddenly becoming trans? Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who

> How about all the kids suddenly becoming trans? Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend. "all the kids" are not suddenly becoming trans - the incident rates in society are still extremely small. All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped pathologizing left-handedness - all the kids didn't suddenly become left-handed, but the ones that were felt comfortable no longer hiding it. And by and large, with some exceptions that get consistently magnified by those with an agenda, it is not something you can just do on a whim, and generally requires a lot of counselling and a lot of effort to pursue hormonal or surgical changes. There are incidents of detransitioning and those that regret it. Those rates are lower than those that regret knee replacements. Happy to answer any other questions if needed.

vinegarden 4y ago
> All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. This doesn't explain the disproportionate rise in teenage girls seeking treatment at gender clinics though. Here's a fascinating essay by a detransitioner on how she began thinking of herself first as 'non-binary' and later as male, and ended up being prescribed testosterone medication for this: https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name. She goes into quite some detail about how being exposed to gender identity ideology on Tumblr over a period of years was what influenced her to transition. Other detransitioners have described similar online influences. It seems likely that this is at least one of the factors causing such an increase, and may well explain why the rise in referrals to gender clinics are so skewed toward female teenagers, who are the primary demographic of sites like Tumblr, and who are particularly vulnerable to social contagions.
fock 4y ago
> All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped. Explained (aka semi-solid empirical experiments - where are those?) or imagined (aka ideological beliefs, much like the right)? > And by and large, with some exceptions that get consistently magnified by those with an agenda, it is not something you can just do on a whim, and generally requires a lot of counselling and a lot of effort to pursue hormonal or surgical changes. And yet every other week I see a talkshow on public TV discussing this. Prominently hosting a person that thinks the rules in place are faaaar to rigid, while most sane people would agree they are fine and problems lie in other areas. For example, while I agree that in many cases physiological "modifications" might be the most economic solution putting this solely to the purview of the individual might a) incur follow-up costs on society (here, these things are not self-paid) and b) raises the question why we don't amputate the legs of those who think they have one too many. The latter thing is something, which I would really like explained once by someone.
- deanCommie 4y ago
  I assume you're American, because as someone European-born and Canadian-raised, I have no qualms about there being costs in my society to help the well being of others. That's what my taxes are for. I'm happy to have them pay for emergency care of others, for cancer treatments, for birth control, for anti-depressants, and for gender confirmation hormones or procedures. Your comparison to a leg amputation suggests someone who's a self-made burden on society - which is dubious because I'm not sure if prosthetics and crutches are that expensive - but mostly because the comparison doesn't make sense. How is someone who is transgender a burden on society at all once they complete transition? The medicine? Please do not learn about transgender people's life experiences from Public TV. You've got the most powerful tools in front of you - talk to people on the internet. Find them on twitter and read their life experiences. Better yet, look around your workplace. The STEM industry is FILLED with trans folks. Meet them, learn from them.
at_a_remove 4y ago
You know what else causes "real harm to kids"? Telling them that puberty blockers are like, totes reversible and have zero side effects.
LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. Please do not make this a partisan issue. Some of us have been following the sexually regressive trend of calling our children's bodies defective and broken because they don't match the viewers' sexual stereotypes for quite a while now, and there was pretty widespread consensus across political and religious ideologies that our kids didn't need surgery to be okay. > It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend. That's circular. They need help because they're caught in a trend which ignores the actual issues in their lives (bullying, divorce, academics, etc) and provides a one-size-fits-all solution of body modification. > All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped pathologizing left-handedness - all the kids didn't suddenly become left-handed, but the ones that were felt comfortable no longer hiding it. This sounds compelling but is not accurate. Left-handedness is a testable "condition" whereas transgender is some adults' interpretation of how people and their genitals should look based on how they act, especially with regard to things the observer thinks of as sexualized, such as who plays with dolls. Society was getting more tolerant, back in the 00s you'd never have a teacher scold a child for using wrong-sex toys because we'd largely gotten rid of the concept. Now it's back and we're telling children their actions and desires are wrong, BUT we've got a surgical solution! Fifteen years ago a boy could have worn a dress to elementary and wouldn't have socially risked anything worse than if they wore the wrong brand. Now they risk their teachers "helping" them make huge life decisions they can't even comprehend, and telling them to keep the discussions secret from their parents. That's a lot less accepting than it used to be. > with some exceptions that get consistently magnified by those with an agenda, it is not something you can just do on a whim, and generally requires a lot of counselling and a lot of effort to pursue hormonal or surgical changes. This isn't true, the fast track (affirmative care) is the only one allowed in most schools and clinics and by WPATH guidelines. Very rarely do teachers, counsellors, therapists, or health care providers pause to help children with preexisting issues before literally telling them that they're born incorrectly and offering solutions - even if those solutions (drugs and surgery) aren't always immediate. > There are incidents of detransitioning and those that regret it. Those rates are lower than those that regret knee replacements. This is not correct. There are no proper studies that follow medical transitioners long enough to usefully make that claim. The studies that exist have egregious failures such as not accounting for dropouts or controlling for comorbidities. And knee surgery is widely known to be almost ineffective for many people, making it an exceptionally misleading comparison.
LargeTomato 4y ago
>All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped pathologizing left-handedness - all the kids didn't suddenly become left-handed, but the ones that were felt comfortable no longer hiding it. I think you are repeating talking points from John Oliver. If trans identifying people were evenly distributed among the population then it would appear a natural phenomenon. Unfortunately in some cases this is not true. Groups of young girls are coming out as trans together. Trans youth are clustered by social circle, not randomly distributed. Being trans is a legitimate identity but it is false to say that every single person who announces that they are trans is in fact trans.
incomingpain 4y ago
>Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/24/an-explosion-what-is-behind-the-rise-in-girls-questioning-their-gender-identity https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/24/an-explosion... The guardian is right wing? https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/10-per-cent-population-gay-alfred-kinsey-statistics https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/10-per-cent-... This was from 2015, the actual numbers are now over 25% today. Hence why the first article from days ago is so concerned with the huge increase. >"all the kids" are not suddenly becoming trans - the incident rates in society are still extremely small. Perhaps nothing is wrong. LGBT rates pre world war 2 was a fraction of a percent. Perhaps society has always been >25% but socially people couldnt admit to it? >Happy to answer any other questions if needed. What's the association between LGBT and "Commie"? There is one.
- deanCommie 4y ago
  The UK specifically has a disproportionate blindspot about transgender issues across the political spectrum. In US, Canada, and much of the rest of the world, it's a mostly partisan issue. > What's the association between LGBT and "Commie"? There is one. Communists don't call themselves Commies. I'm not sure what usernames have to do with one's arguments, mr. "incomingpain"?

vinegarden 4y ago

> All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. This doesn't explain the disproportionate rise in teenage girls seeking treatment at gender clinics though. Here's a fascinating essay by a detransitioner on how she began thinking of herself first as 'non-binary' and later as male, and ended up being prescribed testosterone medication for this: https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name. She goes into quite some detail about how being exposed to gender identity ideology on Tumblr over a period of years was what influenced her to transition. Other detransitioners have described similar online influences. It seems likely that this is at least one of the factors causing such an increase, and may well explain why the rise in referrals to gender clinics are so skewed toward female teenagers, who are the primary demographic of sites like Tumblr, and who are particularly vulnerable to social contagions.

fock 4y ago

> All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped. Explained (aka semi-solid empirical experiments - where are those?) or imagined (aka ideological beliefs, much like the right)? > And by and large, with some exceptions that get consistently magnified by those with an agenda, it is not something you can just do on a whim, and generally requires a lot of counselling and a lot of effort to pursue hormonal or surgical changes. And yet every other week I see a talkshow on public TV discussing this. Prominently hosting a person that thinks the rules in place are faaaar to rigid, while most sane people would agree they are fine and problems lie in other areas. For example, while I agree that in many cases physiological "modifications" might be the most economic solution putting this solely to the purview of the individual might a) incur follow-up costs on society (here, these things are not self-paid) and b) raises the question why we don't amputate the legs of those who think they have one too many. The latter thing is something, which I would really like explained once by someone.

deanCommie 4y ago
I assume you're American, because as someone European-born and Canadian-raised, I have no qualms about there being costs in my society to help the well being of others. That's what my taxes are for. I'm happy to have them pay for emergency care of others, for cancer treatments, for birth control, for anti-depressants, and for gender confirmation hormones or procedures. Your comparison to a leg amputation suggests someone who's a self-made burden on society - which is dubious because I'm not sure if prosthetics and crutches are that expensive - but mostly because the comparison doesn't make sense. How is someone who is transgender a burden on society at all once they complete transition? The medicine? Please do not learn about transgender people's life experiences from Public TV. You've got the most powerful tools in front of you - talk to people on the internet. Find them on twitter and read their life experiences. Better yet, look around your workplace. The STEM industry is FILLED with trans folks. Meet them, learn from them.

at_a_remove 4y ago

You know what else causes "real harm to kids"? Telling them that puberty blockers are like, totes reversible and have zero side effects.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago

> Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. Please do not make this a partisan issue. Some of us have been following the sexually regressive trend of calling our children's bodies defective and broken because they don't match the viewers' sexual stereotypes for quite a while now, and there was pretty widespread consensus across political and religious ideologies that our kids didn't need surgery to be okay. > It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend. That's circular. They need help because they're caught in a trend which ignores the actual issues in their lives (bullying, divorce, academics, etc) and provides a one-size-fits-all solution of body modification. > All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped pathologizing left-handedness - all the kids didn't suddenly become left-handed, but the ones that were felt comfortable no longer hiding it. This sounds compelling but is not accurate. Left-handedness is a testable "condition" whereas transgender is some adults' interpretation of how people and their genitals should look based on how they act, especially with regard to things the observer thinks of as sexualized, such as who plays with dolls. Society was getting more tolerant, back in the 00s you'd never have a teacher scold a child for using wrong-sex toys because we'd largely gotten rid of the concept. Now it's back and we're telling children their actions and desires are wrong, BUT we've got a surgical solution! Fifteen years ago a boy could have worn a dress to elementary and wouldn't have socially risked anything worse than if they wore the wrong brand. Now they risk their teachers "helping" them make huge life decisions they can't even comprehend, and telling them to keep the discussions secret from their parents. That's a lot less accepting than it used to be. > with some exceptions that get consistently magnified by those with an agenda, it is not something you can just do on a whim, and generally requires a lot of counselling and a lot of effort to pursue hormonal or surgical changes. This isn't true, the fast track (affirmative care) is the only one allowed in most schools and clinics and by WPATH guidelines. Very rarely do teachers, counsellors, therapists, or health care providers pause to help children with preexisting issues before literally telling them that they're born incorrectly and offering solutions - even if those solutions (drugs and surgery) aren't always immediate. > There are incidents of detransitioning and those that regret it. Those rates are lower than those that regret knee replacements. This is not correct. There are no proper studies that follow medical transitioners long enough to usefully make that claim. The studies that exist have egregious failures such as not accounting for dropouts or controlling for comorbidities. And knee surgery is widely known to be almost ineffective for many people, making it an exceptionally misleading comparison.

LargeTomato 4y ago

>All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained by a more tolerant society accepting it. The same appeared when we stopped pathologizing left-handedness - all the kids didn't suddenly become left-handed, but the ones that were felt comfortable no longer hiding it. I think you are repeating talking points from John Oliver. If trans identifying people were evenly distributed among the population then it would appear a natural phenomenon. Unfortunately in some cases this is not true. Groups of young girls are coming out as trans together. Trans youth are clustered by social circle, not randomly distributed. Being trans is a legitimate identity but it is false to say that every single person who announces that they are trans is in fact trans.

incomingpain 4y ago

>Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/24/an-explosion-what-is-behind-the-rise-in-girls-questioning-their-gender-identity https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/24/an-explosion... The guardian is right wing? https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/10-per-cent-population-gay-alfred-kinsey-statistics https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/10-per-cent-... This was from 2015, the actual numbers are now over 25% today. Hence why the first article from days ago is so concerned with the huge increase. >"all the kids" are not suddenly becoming trans - the incident rates in society are still extremely small. Perhaps nothing is wrong. LGBT rates pre world war 2 was a fraction of a percent. Perhaps society has always been >25% but socially people couldnt admit to it? >Happy to answer any other questions if needed. What's the association between LGBT and "Commie"? There is one.

deanCommie 4y ago
The UK specifically has a disproportionate blindspot about transgender issues across the political spectrum. In US, Canada, and much of the rest of the world, it's a mostly partisan issue. > What's the association between LGBT and "Commie"? There is one. Communists don't call themselves Commies. I'm not sure what usernames have to do with one's arguments, mr. "incomingpain"?