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Medically assisted deaths could save millions in health care spending: Report

15 points by WaitWaitWha 4y ago

isthisthingon99 4y ago
Ouch. Looks like the death panels thing wasn't too far off
- jewayne 4y ago
  This might be the biggest PR disaster I've ever seen. Suddenly, the media is full of stories implying that the Canadian government is trying to kill its infirm citizens. This happening with the backdrop of a culture that habitually prolongs life way past the point of cruelty. This will not end well.
  - belval 4y ago
    That's probably the actual sad point with this entire saga so far. Medically assisted death is not easy to obtain in Canada only a handful of doctors in a hospital can prescribe the drug and you need to fit pretty stiff criteria (which don't include mental illness despite what every other article seem to imply). Medically assisted thing is a good thing for a lot of near terminal patients stuck with debilitating conditions that cause them suffering. It's a mercy.
    - typ3 4y ago
      Your post has some errors & omissions: - Legal euthanasia ('MAID' in Canadian parlance) is not limited to 'only a handful of doctors in a hospital'--both physicians and nurse practitioners are legally permitted to administer and evaluate patients eligibility for euthanasia. - Legal euthanasia in Canada is available both to patients with terminal illness (deaths which are 'reasonably foreseeable') and patients with non-terminal illness which is 'grievous and irremediable'. The Canadian gov website expressly notes: "you do not need to have a fatal or terminal condition to be eligible for medical assistance in dying." [0] - Patient eligibility is largely based on subjective assessment by the patient ("experience unbearable physical or mental suffering...that cannot be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable") [0] and has been applied in cases far from clear-cut terminal illness leading to unbearable suffering. - As of March 17th, 2023, the law will change to indeed permit legal euthanasia for patients with isolated mental illness. [0] Your last two sentences express a valid opinion on the matter, but your initial paragraph contains several inaccuracies. Canada now has one of the world's most liberal euthanasia frameworks which permits euthanasia for non-terminal illnesses, defines patient eligibility largely on the basis of subjective criteria, and will soon be open to patients presenting with isolated mental illness. [0] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html#a3 https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi...
      - moistly 4y ago
        I used to “joke”, as British Columbia cut back healthcare, workers comp, disability payments, social services, treatment programs, etc over the past few decades, that the government wants you dead if you are not a productive, employed person. I mean, that’s the message, right? “You were injured and we’re not going to pay your rent.” “You’re crazy and we’re going to close the institution.” “You’re homeless and we’re not going to provide shelter.” It’s not a funny joke, because boy, it keeps getting more true with every passing decade.
      - alphaomegacode 4y ago
        Thank you for correcting the many false statements made in the parent post. The Canadian government allowing mentally ill persons to terminate their lives should be real cause for alarm.
    - guilhas 4y ago
      The amount of people dying of it Canada’s New Euthanasia Laws Carry Upsetting Nazi-Era Echoes, Warns Expert https://www.forbes.com/sites/gusalexiou/2022/08/15/canadas-new-euthanasia-laws-carry-upsetting-nazi-era-echoes-warns-expert/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gusalexiou/2022/08/15/canadas-n... Canadian man claims assisted suicide is being pushed on him by hospital https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-being-pushed-on-me-by-hospital/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-...
dadjoker 4y ago
The speed in which Canada is going down the slippery slope of "compassion in dying" is almost supersonic and getting faster all the time. Pretty soon, the "choice to die" becomes the "obligation to die."
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  The slippery slope in my lifetime is shocking. Not only is it not a fallacy, it's basically a guarantee at this point.
moistly 4y ago
I’m all for assistance in passing away when the time comes, but man, this whole thing seems to be going off the rails. The potential swing back to rationality could be a doozy that goes far too far the other direction.
throwaway5959 4y ago
derbOac 4y ago
Ugh I hate things like this. They could have saved themselves the trouble. Murdering millions of healthy 20-year-olds would also save in future health care spending but that's not really the point. Aside from the obvious, I feel like this is kind of some extreme version of some modern phenomenon that would be hilariously satirical if it weren't so terrifying and ethically repugnant.
- onemoresoop 4y ago
  It's ugly but many old people simply don't have anything to live for, their bodies have deteriorated to a point where they can only vegetate and on top of it are depressed, all their friends are gone, nothing ticks for them in this world anymore. Why extend the agony? That's one, there are not so old people terminally ill who would like to end their suffering. Why would they be denied that? I don't like to look at this through financial lens either but it's not too far from the truth.
hobbitstan 4y ago
They’re basically doing to/for humans what they’ve been doing to animals all this time. A lot of pet illnesses can be fought with enough money and expertise, something that people don’t want to do and insurance likely won’t cover. We’ll see health insurance companies apply lifetime limits and such to their plans, more than they already have.
ThomasBb 4y ago
It might be interesting to compare with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands
onemoresoop 4y ago
> You don’t get a choice in when you’re born but you should have a choice in when you die. Especially for individuals who have a family history of dementia and Alzheimer’s (including myself), death may be looked at as a form of mercy when death is a guaranteed outcome eventually anyway. I'm responding to this comment that was deleted. I have Alzheimer's in my family and witnessing it first hand on my grandmother, I simply do not want to live it through to the end if I were ever afflicted by it. It's pointless suffering for the family and for the sufferer.
type0 4y ago
"Canadian man claims assisted suicide is being pushed on him by hospital" https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-being-pushed-on-me-by-hospital/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-...
prirun 4y ago
Everyone has the right and ample methods to die by self-inflicted violence. Why should they have to resort to a violent, traumatic death (most traumatic for their family) if they feel their life is not worth living? IMO, everyone of legal age should have the option of medically-assisted suicide with a few mandatory counseling sessions, not to approve their decision, but to make sure they have considered all their options. It's easy to judge others who might make this decision, but keep in mind, you are not living their life, in their body, with their daily issues.

15 points by WaitWaitWha 4y ago

isthisthingon99 4y ago

Ouch. Looks like the death panels thing wasn't too far off

jewayne 4y ago
This might be the biggest PR disaster I've ever seen. Suddenly, the media is full of stories implying that the Canadian government is trying to kill its infirm citizens. This happening with the backdrop of a culture that habitually prolongs life way past the point of cruelty. This will not end well.
- belval 4y ago
  That's probably the actual sad point with this entire saga so far. Medically assisted death is not easy to obtain in Canada only a handful of doctors in a hospital can prescribe the drug and you need to fit pretty stiff criteria (which don't include mental illness despite what every other article seem to imply). Medically assisted thing is a good thing for a lot of near terminal patients stuck with debilitating conditions that cause them suffering. It's a mercy.
  - typ3 4y ago
    Your post has some errors & omissions: - Legal euthanasia ('MAID' in Canadian parlance) is not limited to 'only a handful of doctors in a hospital'--both physicians and nurse practitioners are legally permitted to administer and evaluate patients eligibility for euthanasia. - Legal euthanasia in Canada is available both to patients with terminal illness (deaths which are 'reasonably foreseeable') and patients with non-terminal illness which is 'grievous and irremediable'. The Canadian gov website expressly notes: "you do not need to have a fatal or terminal condition to be eligible for medical assistance in dying." [0] - Patient eligibility is largely based on subjective assessment by the patient ("experience unbearable physical or mental suffering...that cannot be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable") [0] and has been applied in cases far from clear-cut terminal illness leading to unbearable suffering. - As of March 17th, 2023, the law will change to indeed permit legal euthanasia for patients with isolated mental illness. [0] Your last two sentences express a valid opinion on the matter, but your initial paragraph contains several inaccuracies. Canada now has one of the world's most liberal euthanasia frameworks which permits euthanasia for non-terminal illnesses, defines patient eligibility largely on the basis of subjective criteria, and will soon be open to patients presenting with isolated mental illness. [0] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html#a3 https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi...
    - moistly 4y ago
      I used to “joke”, as British Columbia cut back healthcare, workers comp, disability payments, social services, treatment programs, etc over the past few decades, that the government wants you dead if you are not a productive, employed person. I mean, that’s the message, right? “You were injured and we’re not going to pay your rent.” “You’re crazy and we’re going to close the institution.” “You’re homeless and we’re not going to provide shelter.” It’s not a funny joke, because boy, it keeps getting more true with every passing decade.
    - alphaomegacode 4y ago
      Thank you for correcting the many false statements made in the parent post. The Canadian government allowing mentally ill persons to terminate their lives should be real cause for alarm.
  - guilhas 4y ago
    The amount of people dying of it Canada’s New Euthanasia Laws Carry Upsetting Nazi-Era Echoes, Warns Expert https://www.forbes.com/sites/gusalexiou/2022/08/15/canadas-new-euthanasia-laws-carry-upsetting-nazi-era-echoes-warns-expert/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gusalexiou/2022/08/15/canadas-n... Canadian man claims assisted suicide is being pushed on him by hospital https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-being-pushed-on-me-by-hospital/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-...

dadjoker 4y ago

The speed in which Canada is going down the slippery slope of "compassion in dying" is almost supersonic and getting faster all the time. Pretty soon, the "choice to die" becomes the "obligation to die."

throwayyy479087 4y ago
The slippery slope in my lifetime is shocking. Not only is it not a fallacy, it's basically a guarantee at this point.

moistly 4y ago

I’m all for assistance in passing away when the time comes, but man, this whole thing seems to be going off the rails. The potential swing back to rationality could be a doozy that goes far too far the other direction.

throwaway5959 4y ago

derbOac 4y ago

Ugh I hate things like this. They could have saved themselves the trouble. Murdering millions of healthy 20-year-olds would also save in future health care spending but that's not really the point. Aside from the obvious, I feel like this is kind of some extreme version of some modern phenomenon that would be hilariously satirical if it weren't so terrifying and ethically repugnant.

onemoresoop 4y ago
It's ugly but many old people simply don't have anything to live for, their bodies have deteriorated to a point where they can only vegetate and on top of it are depressed, all their friends are gone, nothing ticks for them in this world anymore. Why extend the agony? That's one, there are not so old people terminally ill who would like to end their suffering. Why would they be denied that? I don't like to look at this through financial lens either but it's not too far from the truth.

hobbitstan 4y ago

They’re basically doing to/for humans what they’ve been doing to animals all this time. A lot of pet illnesses can be fought with enough money and expertise, something that people don’t want to do and insurance likely won’t cover. We’ll see health insurance companies apply lifetime limits and such to their plans, more than they already have.

ThomasBb 4y ago

It might be interesting to compare with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands

onemoresoop 4y ago

> You don’t get a choice in when you’re born but you should have a choice in when you die. Especially for individuals who have a family history of dementia and Alzheimer’s (including myself), death may be looked at as a form of mercy when death is a guaranteed outcome eventually anyway. I'm responding to this comment that was deleted. I have Alzheimer's in my family and witnessing it first hand on my grandmother, I simply do not want to live it through to the end if I were ever afflicted by it. It's pointless suffering for the family and for the sufferer.

type0 4y ago

"Canadian man claims assisted suicide is being pushed on him by hospital" https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-being-pushed-on-me-by-hospital/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-...

prirun 4y ago

Everyone has the right and ample methods to die by self-inflicted violence. Why should they have to resort to a violent, traumatic death (most traumatic for their family) if they feel their life is not worth living? IMO, everyone of legal age should have the option of medically-assisted suicide with a few mandatory counseling sessions, not to approve their decision, but to make sure they have considered all their options. It's easy to judge others who might make this decision, but keep in mind, you are not living their life, in their body, with their daily issues.