2 ms·

Sure, that makes sense. We should also acknowledge that it costs money to deliver and we live in a resource constrained world.

by mwerd 4y ago

EMIRELADERO 4y ago
That doesn't seem to have stopped most other countries from having free or near-free healthcare. You shouldn't even have to think about money when dealing with hospitals.
- gwright 4y ago
  This language isn't very helpful. It is likely paid for from general tax revenue. That might be a better implementation but it certainly isn't "free". And if it isn't explicitly paid for via tax revenue it will end up being paid for via inflation if the government spending is out of line with its revenue.
  - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
    By "free" I meant "free at the time of treatment". Of course nothing is free. Traffic lights aren't free. Road maintenance isn't free.
    - gwright 4y ago
      Many people really don't connect the dots between tax policies and health care insurance/payment policies. Saying that health care/insurance is "free" makes it difficult to have a coherent policy discussion. I know the ship has sailed on this but it I continue to see people truly believe that they are not paying for health care and that sort of misguided understanding of economics shouldn't be encouraged as it makes it difficult to have coherent discussions about many different public policies. College education should be free... College loans should be free (even when they weren't when the loan was taken out)... Income should be free (UBI schemes)... If you switch to "subsidized" from "free" the list expands exponentially.
  - olddustytrail 4y ago
    The language is fine because that's what the word "free" means. Do you complain that a cloud provider's free tier isn't really free because it's paid for by other customers? It seems it's only with healthcare people forget the meaning of the word.
- coredog64 4y ago
  As is common in these discussions, I’ll reference the French system as I experienced it. If you have to go to the hospital, that’s not billed to you. If you see your GP, they charge you up front. There’s no copay as in the US system, the doctor just charges what they want. The doctor doesn’t keep any significant medicine on prem. If you need a vaccine, they write a script that you take to the pharmacy and return with. In either case, you submit your paperwork after the fact and get reimbursed. For office visits it’s 80% of the “reasonable and customary” changes. For medicine it’s usually 50-60%. You can purchase additional insurance that covers more of these costs, but I didn’t see any value in it for my situation. When I left, French insurance companies were setting up US style networks with doctors. If you saw an in-network provider, you were reimbursed more. Only the truly indigent get “free” healthcare under the French system.
ealexhudson 4y ago
The cost of the thing is effectively irrelevant if you both need it and don't get the bills for weeks/months. If patients are expected to self-ration, they need the info up front...
maxerickson 4y ago
Government restricts the resources available for health care with the idea that it costs to much to have extra. So my local hospital just does whatever and charges Medicare their CAH rates, doesn't matter a lot if they suck or could be cheaper, no one else can open a hospital (both by state law and because Medicare probably wouldn't agree to pay them).

Sure, that makes sense. We should also acknowledge that it costs money to deliver and we live in a resource constrained world.

by mwerd 4y ago

Sure, that makes sense. We should also acknowledge that it costs money to deliver and we live in a resource constrained world.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago

That doesn't seem to have stopped most other countries from having free or near-free healthcare. You shouldn't even have to think about money when dealing with hospitals.

gwright 4y ago
This language isn't very helpful. It is likely paid for from general tax revenue. That might be a better implementation but it certainly isn't "free". And if it isn't explicitly paid for via tax revenue it will end up being paid for via inflation if the government spending is out of line with its revenue.
- EMIRELADERO 4y ago
  By "free" I meant "free at the time of treatment". Of course nothing is free. Traffic lights aren't free. Road maintenance isn't free.
  - gwright 4y ago
    Many people really don't connect the dots between tax policies and health care insurance/payment policies. Saying that health care/insurance is "free" makes it difficult to have a coherent policy discussion. I know the ship has sailed on this but it I continue to see people truly believe that they are not paying for health care and that sort of misguided understanding of economics shouldn't be encouraged as it makes it difficult to have coherent discussions about many different public policies. College education should be free... College loans should be free (even when they weren't when the loan was taken out)... Income should be free (UBI schemes)... If you switch to "subsidized" from "free" the list expands exponentially.
- olddustytrail 4y ago
  The language is fine because that's what the word "free" means. Do you complain that a cloud provider's free tier isn't really free because it's paid for by other customers? It seems it's only with healthcare people forget the meaning of the word.
coredog64 4y ago
As is common in these discussions, I’ll reference the French system as I experienced it. If you have to go to the hospital, that’s not billed to you. If you see your GP, they charge you up front. There’s no copay as in the US system, the doctor just charges what they want. The doctor doesn’t keep any significant medicine on prem. If you need a vaccine, they write a script that you take to the pharmacy and return with. In either case, you submit your paperwork after the fact and get reimbursed. For office visits it’s 80% of the “reasonable and customary” changes. For medicine it’s usually 50-60%. You can purchase additional insurance that covers more of these costs, but I didn’t see any value in it for my situation. When I left, French insurance companies were setting up US style networks with doctors. If you saw an in-network provider, you were reimbursed more. Only the truly indigent get “free” healthcare under the French system.

ealexhudson 4y ago

The cost of the thing is effectively irrelevant if you both need it and don't get the bills for weeks/months. If patients are expected to self-ration, they need the info up front...

maxerickson 4y ago

Government restricts the resources available for health care with the idea that it costs to much to have extra. So my local hospital just does whatever and charges Medicare their CAH rates, doesn't matter a lot if they suck or could be cheaper, no one else can open a hospital (both by state law and because Medicare probably wouldn't agree to pay them).