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There's a certain ugliness that graphical-tile-based skins of over roguelikes and other TUI-iconography games have, that you don't tend to see with graphical-ti
by derefr 4y ago
There's a certain ugliness that graphical-tile-based skins of over roguelikes and other TUI-iconography games have, that you don't tend to see with graphical-tile-based games that were designed to be such — i.e. where the tiles and the tileset are a compression mechanism for scenes originally conceptualized without tiles. I'm quite sad to say that — at least judging from the screenshots here — DF's graphical skin here seems to share that "thin graphical skin over a TUI game" look.
What I'm talking about here is best exemplified by looking at this image: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/df4-1440x810.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/df4-1... . There are two types of snow tile (full snow, and patchy snow) here, surrounded by grass tiles. The full-snow tiles are connected, RPG-Maker "9-cell brush-texture"-wise, as if they're little dug-out ponds full of snow. The patchy snow tiles are all individual, with no ability to blend into one-another, and so end up looking like a bunch of individual objects on a clear grid — like ore deposits in a rock face in Runescape.
Neither of these (square-grid connected runs, or non-tesselatable one-tile blocks of varying intensity) is a good choice for depicting snow on grass. A graphical designer who wanted to portray the scene of "a field patchy with snow" in a tile-based game engine, would not create these particular visual elements as the primitives to depict said scene. These primitives are instead only used here because they are the ones that can have a 1:1 mapping with particular underlying DF TUI tiles.
I feel like it would be quite practical, if you were building something like this from the ground up, to write an algorithm to extract from DF's raw tile data here, an "elevation map" of snowiness (heck, maybe it's already a pass available internally in the engine, before it gets quantized out as tiles!); to do some smoothing over said snowiness-map; and then to have grass/dirt/sand/etc tiles consume said "snowiness map" as a shader pass over their textures.
(I know that all this terrain is deformable. So what? Regenerating a 2D snowiness-map over a slightly-past-the-viewport crop of the tile data [i.e. a very low-res sample grid] would take less time than pressing the key to dig a hole. It could be done every frame, even.)
And you could do all sorts of other things like that — e.g. have the lava in https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/df1-1440x810.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/df1-1... be a flowing mass of liquid rather than a bunch of particular static grid tiles.
I feel like the only reason the developers of these graphical adaptations of TUI games don't do this, is because they are trying — at least partially — to serve the part of the existing player-base who prefers the TUI version of the game; rather than focusing solely on the part of the player-base who doesn't like TUIs but plays the game despite that, and the untapped market of people who aren't playing the game because of how ugly and gridlike it is.
(And if you're wondering, this sort of higher-level adaptation doesn't have to be to the detriment of gameplay. "The grid" just becomes a UX feature, an extra lens and maybe an always-on fade around the player and/or the cursor, rather than something evident in the design of the levels. Compare e.g. Sim City 2000 [evident grid] with SC3000 or SC4 [UX-layer grid] for what I mean here.)
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago> There's a certain ugliness that graphical-tile-based skins of over roguelikes and other TUI-iconography games have Yes. Your snow example is a good one. My problem with reworked TUIs is that the graphics emphasize one element of the game and tend to ignore the others. Dwarf Fortress actually supports diagonal paths. With the graphics pack they look like a series of unconnected open rectangles even though a dwarf can walk down them without problems. With a "better" tileset you can see actual diagonal walls. (This screenshot doesn't have a diagonal 1-wide passage, but does have diagonal walls at the edge of rooms. https://i.imgur.com/tryTOUA.png https://i.imgur.com/tryTOUA.png) The graphics are made to attract people to the game not to best represent the fiddly details of the mechanics. I prefer the text because while it's not a perfect representation either at least it isn't actively wrong. > consume said "snowiness map" as a shader pass over their textures. Yeah, to get good looking snow you'd have to do something like this - without the discrete blockiness. In the case of snow this would be easy because DF doesn't have actual game mechanics connected to snow depth or anything it so it would just be a graphics tweak. > have the lava be a flowing mass of liquid rather than a bunch of particular static grid tiles. In the case of lava and other liquids though, the simulation itself is tile based. If you made the surface continuous it would make it harder to tell what was going to happen. > serve the part of the existing player-base who prefers the TUI version of the game; rather than focusing solely on the part of the player-base who doesn't like TUIs but plays the game despite that I think DF is mostly the second category. Not hardcode roguelike fans but fans of the DF simulation which happens to be tile based. > and the untapped market of people who aren't playing the game because of how ugly and gridlike it is. I wonder how big this market is, for DF. If you want a game that looks good why go for graphical DF when you can go straight to Horizon or other graphics-first game. If you aren't interested enough in the mechanic to interact with it, will some 90s-era graphical skins make the difference? > "The grid" just becomes a UX feature, an extra lens and maybe an always-on fade around the player and/or the cursor, rather than something evident in the design of the levels. It would be interesting to maybe anchor building items into an easily understood and simulated grid, but where the grid was arbitrary in relation to the map and other grid-based elements. So you could point your fort in any arbitrary direction in relation to the terrain but the walls would still function properly. DF is a tunnel digging and wall building game where they have to contain fluids or block enemies and it wouldn't be fun debugging tunnels that almost met or had flow-blocking extrusions.