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The fact that you're so willing to lie so brazenly when you're dealing with an unproven and high-risk legal process is, well, I don't know, it undermines your t

The fact that you're so willing to lie so brazenly when you're dealing with an unproven and high-risk legal process is, well, I don't know, it undermines your trustworthiness somewhat -- and proves correct all the cynicism about blockchain being an industry full of frauds. Either the land price was misreported in order to evade taxes or you're lying. Given there's a website showing that the land was for sale for £7,000 1 year ago, I'm going with you're lying -- although either option is bad! https://www.cliveemson.co.uk/properties/228/71/ https://www.cliveemson.co.uk/properties/228/71/ I guess the third option is that you've been taken for a fool by whoever owns the land. Do you have an independent valuation showing the land is worth more than £7k? You can also look up the supposed seller and see that their assets are worth... well, nowhere near a million: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09214284/filing-history https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c... If you can show that land is worth more than £1,000,000 I will happily buy any bridges you have for sale!

rideontime 4y ago
Those websites aren't on The Blockchain, so they aren't trustworthy. Rando crypto HN commentor is extremely trustworthy, though.
- lambdadmitry 4y ago
  That's not a rando, that's Vinay Gupta https://twitter.com/leashless/ https://twitter.com/leashless/ Edit: staying more factual
  - rideontime 4y ago
    Even worse!
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    That doesn't make them any more trustworthy. They openly have a huge stake in this system being way more valuable.
    - lambdadmitry 4y ago
      Indeed, it makes it worse.
leashless 4y ago
Do you have any idea how much land costs in the UK? Like… any idea? You can’t buy a parking space in this country for £7000.
- phphphphp 4y ago
  this is an international website, there's lots of people on this website from all over the world... I am from the UK. I am writing this comment from the UK. I have extensive knowledge of land and property prices in the UK, but that's not particularly important, because anybody can operate Google from anywhere in the world. For example, a quick Google search will show that you can buy coastal land with houses on it for less than £1.7m so £1.7m for land that you cannot develop is an absurd suggestion. You can buy a 4 bedroom apartment moments from your piece of land... for £650k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/127693028 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/127693028 You're being intentionally evasive, given you've been shown both land registry records (which, fyi, if are wrong, then the seller has avoided hundreds of thousands of pounds in stamp duty and HMRC will not look kindly on that when they receive my email) and an auction website where the land was sold (for the same price listed with the land registry). I will literally buy that piece of land from you, right now, for the list price, if you can show any evidence it is worth that amount. You can buy parking spaces all over the UK for £7k, you can even buy houses in the north of England for ~£7k! The idea that a small piece of beach the size of my house that cannot be built on is worth more a parking space in London is ridiculous -- let alone worth more than a mansion down the road from the beach. You could buy 1.72 acres in London for less than £1.7m.
  - leashless 4y ago
    If you are a really serious about this, I don’t see why the sellers of the land would not be happy to take you up on the offer. As noted in the other comment, we do have an independent valuation on file. The deal is legitimate. If you feel like following through, do feel free to drop me an email.
- inigo 4y ago
  I do have a general idea of how much land costs in the UK, and also, I've been to Milford On Sea several times, and I've walked and run across the land in question. It's not on the nice area of the beach: that's a few hundred metres further down the coast, and that's where there are things like beach huts. It's a good piece of land for dog walkers, though - and there's a footpath running through it. I don't think you could realistically build anything there, hence the low price. If you are visiting it, I can highly recommend Verveine, a really good fish restaurant about half a mile away, on the High Street. A great tasting menu - 8 courses with matched wines, for £130 - much cheaper than London, just like the land prices. Excellent desserts.
dgroshev 4y ago
The buyer is a one person company with £14k in cash and £16k in debts as of the last year https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09214284/filing-history https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c... They have an empty cookie cutter website https://westlondoncitylets.co.uk/our-work.html https://westlondoncitylets.co.uk/our-work.html and its owner has an empty linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/idris-anjary-24000b171/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/idris-anjary-24000b171/ The same guy owns Tokenized Properties Ltd which is an empty husk of a company https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/8jnfT9Q92UrRmjaOsGtkXvyAapQ/appointments https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/o... and shares its address with West London City Lets Ltd However, they do have another cookie cutter website selling that "development opportunity" https://tokenized-properties.com/ https://tokenized-properties.com/ and repeating the $1.25m price tag According to the title (and corroborated by the entry on mattereum) the only land in it is the one I marked in red https://imgur.com/a/5h6c8Zi https://imgur.com/a/5h6c8Zi — it's literally a cliff, plus the title talks about right of way on the paths marked there for the next twenty years, so it's impossible to build on This right here just perfectly encapsulates everything wrong with the crypto industry, I'm very disappointed to see Vinay openly defending this sham
- leashless 4y ago
  1) the £7000 payment was a transaction fee on the transfer of the land. 2) we have an independent valuation on file for the land at >1M. I wanted to reconfirm this with a member of my team before replying with specifics here, which you read as “he’s being evasive.” I was waiting for data. The full documentation stack for the land is in the Asset Passport linked from the OpenSea listing. If you want access to the documents email me and I’ll see about getting you an NDA and putting you in touch with the seller - they may or may not choose to satisfy your curiosity. Thank you for your diligence.
  - phphphphp 4y ago
    Either you're a fraud or a fool. The land registry does not list "transaction fees" and neither do auction houses. If the land was indeed purchased for a large amount of money, the buyer (who is now the seller) would need to have purchased it... either in cash, or with a mortgage. There's no mortgages outstanding for the company (per companies house) and the company has no money. I'll be charitable and assume you're just a fool: you've been played by your property agency partners, and the "member of your team" is of course, I'm sure, the person who provided the valuation from their "independent" valuer (because they're the property expert after all). You can go on rightmove or an auction website right now and see comparable land available for <£100k. The basis of your defence was that of course the land is worth a lot because land in the UK is worth a lot but that's just not true, the only place where parking spaces sell for more than £7,000 is in London: in 75%+ of the country, you could buy 1 acre of land for £7,000. The value of unused land for sale is a function of the amount of realisable value, for example, if there is a piece of land with planning permission for a 5 bedroom house in an area where a 5 bedroom house sells for £1,000,000, the price of the land would be something like £1m - (cost of building a house) - (some adjustment for the risk borne by the builder which becomes their profit), e.g: £500k. If your 1.72 acres of beach front land is worth close to £2,000,000 that would mean there is much more than £2,000,000 realisable value for an owner of the land. Please, think through how you could conceivably realise millions of pounds of value from a piece of land that you are unable to build on. Land in the UK is plentiful, the reason that a small proportion of land here is expensive is because only a small proportion of land is suitable for development and has permission for development. You could buy acres and acres of land anywhere in the UK for the price of 1 months rent in London... because the land is undevelopable, because you'll never get permission to develop. The idea that an acre of beachfront is worth millions, when it has much less than a million worth of realisable value, is absurd. You're a business man, write a business case for this land. If £7,000 was a "transaction fee" then is this other auction, with a listed sold price of £130,750, a transaction fee of £130k for this piece of land? And if so, is this land worth (130,750 / 7000) * 1,900,000 = £35 million? https://www.cliveemson.co.uk/properties/237/15/ https://www.cliveemson.co.uk/properties/237/15/

rideontime 4y ago

Those websites aren't on The Blockchain, so they aren't trustworthy. Rando crypto HN commentor is extremely trustworthy, though.

lambdadmitry 4y ago
That's not a rando, that's Vinay Gupta https://twitter.com/leashless/ https://twitter.com/leashless/ Edit: staying more factual
- rideontime 4y ago
  Even worse!
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  That doesn't make them any more trustworthy. They openly have a huge stake in this system being way more valuable.
  - lambdadmitry 4y ago
    Indeed, it makes it worse.

leashless 4y ago

Do you have any idea how much land costs in the UK? Like… any idea? You can’t buy a parking space in this country for £7000.

phphphphp 4y ago
this is an international website, there's lots of people on this website from all over the world... I am from the UK. I am writing this comment from the UK. I have extensive knowledge of land and property prices in the UK, but that's not particularly important, because anybody can operate Google from anywhere in the world. For example, a quick Google search will show that you can buy coastal land with houses on it for less than £1.7m so £1.7m for land that you cannot develop is an absurd suggestion. You can buy a 4 bedroom apartment moments from your piece of land... for £650k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/127693028 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/127693028 You're being intentionally evasive, given you've been shown both land registry records (which, fyi, if are wrong, then the seller has avoided hundreds of thousands of pounds in stamp duty and HMRC will not look kindly on that when they receive my email) and an auction website where the land was sold (for the same price listed with the land registry). I will literally buy that piece of land from you, right now, for the list price, if you can show any evidence it is worth that amount. You can buy parking spaces all over the UK for £7k, you can even buy houses in the north of England for ~£7k! The idea that a small piece of beach the size of my house that cannot be built on is worth more a parking space in London is ridiculous -- let alone worth more than a mansion down the road from the beach. You could buy 1.72 acres in London for less than £1.7m.
- leashless 4y ago
  If you are a really serious about this, I don’t see why the sellers of the land would not be happy to take you up on the offer. As noted in the other comment, we do have an independent valuation on file. The deal is legitimate. If you feel like following through, do feel free to drop me an email.
inigo 4y ago
I do have a general idea of how much land costs in the UK, and also, I've been to Milford On Sea several times, and I've walked and run across the land in question. It's not on the nice area of the beach: that's a few hundred metres further down the coast, and that's where there are things like beach huts. It's a good piece of land for dog walkers, though - and there's a footpath running through it. I don't think you could realistically build anything there, hence the low price. If you are visiting it, I can highly recommend Verveine, a really good fish restaurant about half a mile away, on the High Street. A great tasting menu - 8 courses with matched wines, for £130 - much cheaper than London, just like the land prices. Excellent desserts.

dgroshev 4y ago

The buyer is a one person company with £14k in cash and £16k in debts as of the last year https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09214284/filing-history https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c... They have an empty cookie cutter website https://westlondoncitylets.co.uk/our-work.html https://westlondoncitylets.co.uk/our-work.html and its owner has an empty linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/idris-anjary-24000b171/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/idris-anjary-24000b171/ The same guy owns Tokenized Properties Ltd which is an empty husk of a company https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/8jnfT9Q92UrRmjaOsGtkXvyAapQ/appointments https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/o... and shares its address with West London City Lets Ltd However, they do have another cookie cutter website selling that "development opportunity" https://tokenized-properties.com/ https://tokenized-properties.com/ and repeating the $1.25m price tag According to the title (and corroborated by the entry on mattereum) the only land in it is the one I marked in red https://imgur.com/a/5h6c8Zi https://imgur.com/a/5h6c8Zi — it's literally a cliff, plus the title talks about right of way on the paths marked there for the next twenty years, so it's impossible to build on This right here just perfectly encapsulates everything wrong with the crypto industry, I'm very disappointed to see Vinay openly defending this sham

leashless 4y ago
1) the £7000 payment was a transaction fee on the transfer of the land. 2) we have an independent valuation on file for the land at >1M. I wanted to reconfirm this with a member of my team before replying with specifics here, which you read as “he’s being evasive.” I was waiting for data. The full documentation stack for the land is in the Asset Passport linked from the OpenSea listing. If you want access to the documents email me and I’ll see about getting you an NDA and putting you in touch with the seller - they may or may not choose to satisfy your curiosity. Thank you for your diligence.
- phphphphp 4y ago
  Either you're a fraud or a fool. The land registry does not list "transaction fees" and neither do auction houses. If the land was indeed purchased for a large amount of money, the buyer (who is now the seller) would need to have purchased it... either in cash, or with a mortgage. There's no mortgages outstanding for the company (per companies house) and the company has no money. I'll be charitable and assume you're just a fool: you've been played by your property agency partners, and the "member of your team" is of course, I'm sure, the person who provided the valuation from their "independent" valuer (because they're the property expert after all). You can go on rightmove or an auction website right now and see comparable land available for <£100k. The basis of your defence was that of course the land is worth a lot because land in the UK is worth a lot but that's just not true, the only place where parking spaces sell for more than £7,000 is in London: in 75%+ of the country, you could buy 1 acre of land for £7,000. The value of unused land for sale is a function of the amount of realisable value, for example, if there is a piece of land with planning permission for a 5 bedroom house in an area where a 5 bedroom house sells for £1,000,000, the price of the land would be something like £1m - (cost of building a house) - (some adjustment for the risk borne by the builder which becomes their profit), e.g: £500k. If your 1.72 acres of beach front land is worth close to £2,000,000 that would mean there is much more than £2,000,000 realisable value for an owner of the land. Please, think through how you could conceivably realise millions of pounds of value from a piece of land that you are unable to build on. Land in the UK is plentiful, the reason that a small proportion of land here is expensive is because only a small proportion of land is suitable for development and has permission for development. You could buy acres and acres of land anywhere in the UK for the price of 1 months rent in London... because the land is undevelopable, because you'll never get permission to develop. The idea that an acre of beachfront is worth millions, when it has much less than a million worth of realisable value, is absurd. You're a business man, write a business case for this land. If £7,000 was a "transaction fee" then is this other auction, with a listed sold price of £130,750, a transaction fee of £130k for this piece of land? And if so, is this land worth (130,750 / 7000) * 1,900,000 = £35 million? https://www.cliveemson.co.uk/properties/237/15/ https://www.cliveemson.co.uk/properties/237/15/