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Their frame, their world view is based or heavily influenced by their faith, which drives their decisions, comments, dispositions, and this article of self-expr

Their frame, their world view is based or heavily influenced by their faith, which drives their decisions, comments, dispositions, and this article of self-expression. It reads like you are stating that their personal, self-expression does not require their own world view, therefore it should have been left out. Do I read your note correctly? If so, I disagree. Yes, the whole article could have been written in a few paragraphs. In my opinion, it would have been dull, lack nuance, and failed to color-in the emotions she felt.

taeric 4y ago
I think I agree with the OP. I'm happy for folks that find comfort in the company they decide to keep. I am always confused by the idea that this is somehow the religion a person chooses that is the deciding factor. Take the first callout, "I have always believed that one of the great arguments for being part of a collectivist Christian tradition is their willingness to do voluntary, gruelling manual labour and call it love." What about that actually requires the "Christian" part? And the odd implication that other collectivist traditions would not find a path to volunteering is... a little chilling to me.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
I didn't want it to be shorter. I just think she could have explored all the same themes and told all the same anecdotes without any of them explicitly being connected to Christianity. Except, perhaps, for the willingness of communitarian anabaptists to do hard work as a group, but even then, how much of that relates to their Christian faith and how much to their communitarian outlook (something they share with non-Christian groups).
haswell 4y ago
I grew up under the thumb of Christianity; the form that only thinly veils their contempt for most of the world, and disguises hate as piety. I mention this because it absolutely colors my view of that community, and I want to acknowledge that up front. With that said, what always struck me as odd is that Christians seem to believe Christianity is the source of their desire (and all desire) to do good. The source of morality, good will, selflessness, personal sacrifice, etc. When I escaped from the bubble, the first thing that hit me like a train was that I saw all of these qualities - often in an even purer form - in people from all walks of life, including many atheists. Over time, I came to realize/believe that these qualities are deep within humanity, and probably have a large impact on why humanity has progressed in a way that is unlike any other species alive today. Religions are implementations of these underlying traits, not their source. It is for this reason that many religions share so many commonalities. They are invented by man, and stem from the same underlying realizations that many thinkers have had throughout history, spanning civilizations and geographies. And as man made concepts, they are just as susceptible to corruption and misuse as any organization. With this framing in mind, I try to interpret the world views of religious folks much like I would a developer who centers their life around a particular language or development stack. There's often a lot of truth in what they believe, even if that truth is not unique to the particular implementation they chose. The difference is that devs generally acknowledge that their path of choice is just a preference and not some absolute truth. Choosing Python over Ruby isn't going to send a person to hell, although you'll still find those "this is the only way" tendencies from the most devout.

taeric 4y ago

I think I agree with the OP. I'm happy for folks that find comfort in the company they decide to keep. I am always confused by the idea that this is somehow the religion a person chooses that is the deciding factor. Take the first callout, "I have always believed that one of the great arguments for being part of a collectivist Christian tradition is their willingness to do voluntary, gruelling manual labour and call it love." What about that actually requires the "Christian" part? And the odd implication that other collectivist traditions would not find a path to volunteering is... a little chilling to me.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

I didn't want it to be shorter. I just think she could have explored all the same themes and told all the same anecdotes without any of them explicitly being connected to Christianity. Except, perhaps, for the willingness of communitarian anabaptists to do hard work as a group, but even then, how much of that relates to their Christian faith and how much to their communitarian outlook (something they share with non-Christian groups).

haswell 4y ago

I grew up under the thumb of Christianity; the form that only thinly veils their contempt for most of the world, and disguises hate as piety. I mention this because it absolutely colors my view of that community, and I want to acknowledge that up front. With that said, what always struck me as odd is that Christians seem to believe Christianity is the source of their desire (and all desire) to do good. The source of morality, good will, selflessness, personal sacrifice, etc. When I escaped from the bubble, the first thing that hit me like a train was that I saw all of these qualities - often in an even purer form - in people from all walks of life, including many atheists. Over time, I came to realize/believe that these qualities are deep within humanity, and probably have a large impact on why humanity has progressed in a way that is unlike any other species alive today. Religions are implementations of these underlying traits, not their source. It is for this reason that many religions share so many commonalities. They are invented by man, and stem from the same underlying realizations that many thinkers have had throughout history, spanning civilizations and geographies. And as man made concepts, they are just as susceptible to corruption and misuse as any organization. With this framing in mind, I try to interpret the world views of religious folks much like I would a developer who centers their life around a particular language or development stack. There's often a lot of truth in what they believe, even if that truth is not unique to the particular implementation they chose. The difference is that devs generally acknowledge that their path of choice is just a preference and not some absolute truth. Choosing Python over Ruby isn't going to send a person to hell, although you'll still find those "this is the only way" tendencies from the most devout.