9 ms·

I'm from Brazil, my wife is from Greece. We are both living in Germany. So I'm well aware of what you are talking about. Yet: > one of the downsides is that

I'm from Brazil, my wife is from Greece. We are both living in Germany. So I'm well aware of what you are talking about. Yet: > one of the downsides is that they have to navigate parenting by themselves. That's not true. Our families may be away most of the time, but we have a constant rotation of our parents (and my wife's Giagia) coming to stay with us. When our second kid was born, I don't think we were by ourselves for the first six months. Even today, we get someone visiting us at least every other month. > kids a higher probability of success when they grow up. This is increasingly becoming something we are asking ourselves. I think our kids would benefit more from being able to grow up close to their families than in a place with a culture and values that we don't really share. For us (and me specially) living in Germany has been more of a "tolerable" than a "desirable" situation. With remote work becoming a reality, I think we can have our cake and eat it too.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
>That's not true. Our families may be away most of the time, but we have a constant rotation of our parents (and my wife's Giagia) coming to stay with us. When our second kid was born, I don't think we were by ourselves for the first six months. Even today, we get someone visiting us at least every other month. That is not possible for many others.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Then the question is why? What is dysfunctional about their lives that makes it impossible?
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I would guess money is a frequent issue, plus visa and other family obligations such as other siblings great grandparents. Health issues too since grandparents are older than in previous times. None of those qualify as dysfunction in my book.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Apologies in advance for the (slight) moving of the goal posts, but to me the problems you mention do point to very dysfunctional aspects of modern life and common family structures: - "Older grandparents" is a sign that people are waiting too much to have their own kids. - "Other family obligations", like what... Work? Perhaps we should rethink our globalized, modern economy that makes dual-income families a necessity. I really hope that by the time my kids get to have their kids, my wife and I are in condition to dedicate ourselves to help them as much as our own parents helped us. - "Visa issues" is mostly an American thing, which unfortunately I also I am very familiar with (lived in the US before coming to Germany). The US is only going to sort this out after it solves the Milton Friedman dilemma: it can be either a country of Open Borders, or it can be a Welfare State. Until it tries to be both, it is doomed to these catastrophic policies.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        Yeah Brazil at least has Mercosur. It's pretty crazy North America doesn't have something similar considering capital can mostly freely flow between NAFTA countries. (although we do have something similar with compact free association i.e. micronesia / palau / marshall islands)
  - enigma20 4y ago
    Why do you assume "dysfunctional"? Flying costs money. Having apartment big enough to accommodate 3 adults plus one or two kids costs money. Family members have to work too. There is no black and white here.
  - raydev 4y ago
    - The grandparents have jobs of their own with limited vacation time (maybe a US-specific problem, you say you are from Brazil) - Does either side of the family have enough money to fund cross-country travel more than once a year for a week at a time?
    - rglullis 4y ago
      You can fly from Greece to Germany for less than 50€ (Ryanair, Easyjet) My parents are retired/semi-retired. When they come, it's usually during the summer (here)

lotsofpulp 4y ago

>That's not true. Our families may be away most of the time, but we have a constant rotation of our parents (and my wife's Giagia) coming to stay with us. When our second kid was born, I don't think we were by ourselves for the first six months. Even today, we get someone visiting us at least every other month. That is not possible for many others.

rglullis 4y ago
Then the question is why? What is dysfunctional about their lives that makes it impossible?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I would guess money is a frequent issue, plus visa and other family obligations such as other siblings great grandparents. Health issues too since grandparents are older than in previous times. None of those qualify as dysfunction in my book.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Apologies in advance for the (slight) moving of the goal posts, but to me the problems you mention do point to very dysfunctional aspects of modern life and common family structures: - "Older grandparents" is a sign that people are waiting too much to have their own kids. - "Other family obligations", like what... Work? Perhaps we should rethink our globalized, modern economy that makes dual-income families a necessity. I really hope that by the time my kids get to have their kids, my wife and I are in condition to dedicate ourselves to help them as much as our own parents helped us. - "Visa issues" is mostly an American thing, which unfortunately I also I am very familiar with (lived in the US before coming to Germany). The US is only going to sort this out after it solves the Milton Friedman dilemma: it can be either a country of Open Borders, or it can be a Welfare State. Until it tries to be both, it is doomed to these catastrophic policies.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      Yeah Brazil at least has Mercosur. It's pretty crazy North America doesn't have something similar considering capital can mostly freely flow between NAFTA countries. (although we do have something similar with compact free association i.e. micronesia / palau / marshall islands)
- enigma20 4y ago
  Why do you assume "dysfunctional"? Flying costs money. Having apartment big enough to accommodate 3 adults plus one or two kids costs money. Family members have to work too. There is no black and white here.
- raydev 4y ago
  - The grandparents have jobs of their own with limited vacation time (maybe a US-specific problem, you say you are from Brazil) - Does either side of the family have enough money to fund cross-country travel more than once a year for a week at a time?
  - rglullis 4y ago
    You can fly from Greece to Germany for less than 50€ (Ryanair, Easyjet) My parents are retired/semi-retired. When they come, it's usually during the summer (here)