7 ms·

Twitter is unequivocally a fiasco. You disagree?

by eli 4y ago

leesec 4y ago
yes lol. not at all a failure
baryphonic 4y ago
How is Twitter a fiasco? The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years, and there is finally transparency around the moderation decisions. Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. The only negative was the haphazard release of Twitter Blue "verification," which felt chaotic and was turned off as a result pending relaunch, but was hardly a fiasco.
- ZoomerCretin 4y ago
  > How is Twitter a fiasco? How about the Nazis and far-right accounts he's given blanket pardon to, and who are now inciting violence against the LGBT community?
  - baryphonic 4y ago
    I haven't seen this. Can you point to specific examples of prominent accounts inciting violence?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years... Yes, you get more photos of a train wreck than a routine train passing through town, too. > Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. There's no real evidence of this (in both that Twitter wasn't, and that Musk changed something). The tweet thread that put this talking point into play was immediately debunked in various spots, like the claim there was no CSAM reporting option when there had been for years.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  > finally taking child exploitation seriously I would love if there was actual evidence provided for this claim and its actual effectiveness because this seems to be the sort of "think of the children!" claim that is emotionally very satisfying but ultimately rings hollow.
  - baryphonic 4y ago
    Why would you want to see the evidence of this? I believe the claim is still true, but it's one of the few claims I don't want to verify for myself. Maybe that makes it unpersuasive as an argument. It seems to be a more serious priority for the new regime over the old one.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      > Why would you want to see the evidence of this? Because if you're going to mark that as a measure of the new leadership's success the only way to judge that it is by having evidence that the claim matches the reality. Saying "the claim is about something I don't need verification that it's real" is a really strange stance to take. I'd argue that the most important claims are the ones that should require the best evidence.
- RHSeeger 4y ago
  > The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years Yeah, but so does every dumpster fire, or car wreck. Everyone is looking at those. > The only negative was the haphazard release of Twitter Blue "verification," I'm not even sure how to respond to this. He's been firing people left and right, and everything points to the overall system being about to collapse under it's own stress (because there isn't the staff to support it).
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. Does that explain why Ol' Muskie gutted the moderation teams leaving one (1) moderator to look after all CSAM for Asia (60M+ users)? https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-child-sexual-abuse-material/ https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-child-sexual-abuse-mater...
  - at_a_remove 4y ago
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/zero-tolerance-suspension-rate-nearly-doubles-for-twitter-accounts-exploiting-child-sex-abuse-material https://www.dailywire.com/news/zero-tolerance-suspension-rat... Seems to be working ...
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Trying to analyze this off externally available data is probably a fool's game, just like trying to analylze bots externally is tough. @elizableu, cited in the article, has a history of false claims on this. Claim: https://twitter.com/elizableu/status/1594158531015761920 https://twitter.com/elizableu/status/1594158531015761920 > To those who aren’t aware yet, last week Twitter did add a direct reporting option for child sexual exploitation. (ONLY on tweets with content images/videos) this was not previously available and was a separate form that wasn’t easy to find. I’m grateful to see these changes. Reality: https://twitter.com/ChronicBabak/status/1594762640357982208 https://twitter.com/ChronicBabak/status/1594762640357982208 When invited to help in a more direct fashion, she declined. https://www.dailywire.com/news/major-companies-remove-advertisements-from-twitter-over-child-pornography-allegations https://www.dailywire.com/news/major-companies-remove-advert... > Bleu said following the meeting, they offered her a position on Twitter’s Trust and Safety Committee, but she declined because she refused to “work with or for abusers.”
      - zimpenfish 4y ago
        > @elizableu, cited in the article, has a history of false claims on this. Mr Musk, also, does not have a stellar history of accurate reporting either.
- Sharlin 4y ago
  > The platform has more engagement Funny you should use that word, seeing how it has gotten more and more obvious that focusing on "engagement" is the reason why most social media is so awful.
- rideontime 4y ago
  > Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously Why do you believe this?
  - baryphonic 4y ago
    I admit I cannot verify this, nor do I wish to given the subject matter I'm taking it from sources I've found trustworthy
- memish 4y ago
  All that and with 50%+ less overhead. It being an unequivocal success is breaking people that have built their personality around hating someone and are desperate to see them fail.
- chinathrow 4y ago
  They removed the origin label, e.g. Twitter for iOS or Twitter for Android or any of the scheduling services. I always looked at that label to see if it's a manual or a scheduled tweet.
- mandeepj 4y ago
  > The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years... There are more people at a funeral than at a birthday.
- BryantD 4y ago
  Where’s this moderation transparency? Can you point me at the clear explanation for why Crimethinc was suspended? Musk says that Ye was suspended for inciting violence. Does that mean anyone posting a swastika will be suspended? Since Musk says permanent suspensions are bad, does that mean Ye gets to come back at some point? If so, what are the conditions? Twitter has stated that they’re relying more heavily on automation. Musk claimed he was going to open the algorithms. Are the automated abuse detection algorithms available for inspection? (Hopefully not, since that makes it easier to avoid them, but perhaps Musk should have considered that before making promises.)
- vkou 4y ago
  > How is Twitter a fiasco? Making a deal to pay 44 billion dollars for a 30 billion dollar company with no cancellation clause, and then spending 6 months desperately, and very loudly trying to back out of that deal is definitively a fiasco. Whether or not his stewardship of it will turn a 30 billion dollar company into a... Much less valuable company... is, however, not a question that we can definitively answer - at this time.
  - baryphonic 4y ago
    How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? Their relationship is tenuous at most. Also, the macroeconomic conditions between April and July were entirely different. I can see why someone would go along with a bad deal in a world where interest rates are quite low, then get cold feet when interest rates spike up. Maybe that's not optimal deal-making, but it's hardly a "fiasco."
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? How does it not? Revenue streams - ads, putting features behind a paywall, etc. - all affect UX.
    - vkou 4y ago
      > How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? It doesn't, but I never said that I was talking about fiascos for the customers. Time will tell with Twitter on that subject. That would be something alongside blatant lies like "FSD next year" and "Your tesla will taxi people around while you sleep", but if I pointed at that, someone would certainly come along, point at the Tesla stock price, and tell me that this is not actually a fiasco because he's the richest man in the world. > I can see why someone would go along with a bad deal in a world where interest rates are quite low, then get cold feet when interest rates spike up. I cannot see why they would go in to buy one of the sickest of the big tech firms, at a premium, in an economy built on funny money, with no escape hatch, and then proceed to piss on everyone within shouting distance when they get buyers' remorse. Or rather, I can see why they would do that, but it doesn't reflect very well on them.
- eli 4y ago
  lol
Sebb767 4y ago
Twitter looks chaotic right now. But to see his actual impact we'll have to wait for a few years.
- esalman 4y ago
  He's been selling the Tesla crowd on "wait a few years" as well when it comes to FSD.
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    But this time, it's not wait a few years for something to maybe happen, but wait a few years to see how Twitters numbers develop. If Twitter has a quarter of the market share in 2 years we can say that yes, Elon failed, but right now it's hard to judge.
    - esalman 4y ago
      How would you define market share? Elon has also been trying to upsell Twitter numbers, so that doesn't generate a lot of confidence.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chroma 4y ago
    I mean... FSD has rolled out to every vehicle in North America that bought the feature. It's definitely not perfect, but it's getting better every update. Yes the timelines have been much longer than Musk claimed, but you can watch tons of YouTube videos of the cars driving themselves. Failure seems to be less and less likely as time goes on.
- yabones 4y ago
  Well if you're impatient like me you'll be happy to know that once they miss the first $1.5 billion interest payment they'll either default, or he'll have to sell off massive chunks of Tesla shares or stake in Spacex, potentially blowing up multiple companies in the process. So it might take a singular year or less to see how it goes.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
As an end user what’s even changed? Seems the same to me. Just Bluechecks and journalists angry that they’ll no longer be a special class of user on the site so they’re claiming it’s over and a disaster when really it hasn’t changed to the end user.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  It's funny that the reaction to the twitter moderation team being reduced to still enormous was to move to Mastodon, with no moderation teams other than the guy who runs the node.
  - kortex 4y ago
    I think the big difference is on Mastodon, you have way finer-grained control over what content you are exposed to. Twitter is more like one giant global state, so if there is toxic content, it can leak to way more eyeballs that don't want to see it.
fabiandesimone 4y ago
WHAT
DocTomoe 4y ago
Twitter was a fiasco before Musk took over, though.

Twitter is unequivocally a fiasco. You disagree?

by eli 4y ago

Twitter is unequivocally a fiasco. You disagree?

leesec 4y ago

yes lol. not at all a failure

baryphonic 4y ago

How is Twitter a fiasco? The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years, and there is finally transparency around the moderation decisions. Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. The only negative was the haphazard release of Twitter Blue "verification," which felt chaotic and was turned off as a result pending relaunch, but was hardly a fiasco.

ZoomerCretin 4y ago
> How is Twitter a fiasco? How about the Nazis and far-right accounts he's given blanket pardon to, and who are now inciting violence against the LGBT community?
- baryphonic 4y ago
  I haven't seen this. Can you point to specific examples of prominent accounts inciting violence?
ceejayoz 4y ago
> The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years... Yes, you get more photos of a train wreck than a routine train passing through town, too. > Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. There's no real evidence of this (in both that Twitter wasn't, and that Musk changed something). The tweet thread that put this talking point into play was immediately debunked in various spots, like the claim there was no CSAM reporting option when there had been for years.
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
> finally taking child exploitation seriously I would love if there was actual evidence provided for this claim and its actual effectiveness because this seems to be the sort of "think of the children!" claim that is emotionally very satisfying but ultimately rings hollow.
- baryphonic 4y ago
  Why would you want to see the evidence of this? I believe the claim is still true, but it's one of the few claims I don't want to verify for myself. Maybe that makes it unpersuasive as an argument. It seems to be a more serious priority for the new regime over the old one.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    > Why would you want to see the evidence of this? Because if you're going to mark that as a measure of the new leadership's success the only way to judge that it is by having evidence that the claim matches the reality. Saying "the claim is about something I don't need verification that it's real" is a really strange stance to take. I'd argue that the most important claims are the ones that should require the best evidence.
RHSeeger 4y ago
> The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years Yeah, but so does every dumpster fire, or car wreck. Everyone is looking at those. > The only negative was the haphazard release of Twitter Blue "verification," I'm not even sure how to respond to this. He's been firing people left and right, and everything points to the overall system being about to collapse under it's own stress (because there isn't the staff to support it).
zimpenfish 4y ago
> Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. Does that explain why Ol' Muskie gutted the moderation teams leaving one (1) moderator to look after all CSAM for Asia (60M+ users)? https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-child-sexual-abuse-material/ https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-child-sexual-abuse-mater...
- at_a_remove 4y ago
  https://www.dailywire.com/news/zero-tolerance-suspension-rate-nearly-doubles-for-twitter-accounts-exploiting-child-sex-abuse-material https://www.dailywire.com/news/zero-tolerance-suspension-rat... Seems to be working ...
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Trying to analyze this off externally available data is probably a fool's game, just like trying to analylze bots externally is tough. @elizableu, cited in the article, has a history of false claims on this. Claim: https://twitter.com/elizableu/status/1594158531015761920 https://twitter.com/elizableu/status/1594158531015761920 > To those who aren’t aware yet, last week Twitter did add a direct reporting option for child sexual exploitation. (ONLY on tweets with content images/videos) this was not previously available and was a separate form that wasn’t easy to find. I’m grateful to see these changes. Reality: https://twitter.com/ChronicBabak/status/1594762640357982208 https://twitter.com/ChronicBabak/status/1594762640357982208 When invited to help in a more direct fashion, she declined. https://www.dailywire.com/news/major-companies-remove-advertisements-from-twitter-over-child-pornography-allegations https://www.dailywire.com/news/major-companies-remove-advert... > Bleu said following the meeting, they offered her a position on Twitter’s Trust and Safety Committee, but she declined because she refused to “work with or for abusers.”
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      > @elizableu, cited in the article, has a history of false claims on this. Mr Musk, also, does not have a stellar history of accurate reporting either.
Sharlin 4y ago
> The platform has more engagement Funny you should use that word, seeing how it has gotten more and more obvious that focusing on "engagement" is the reason why most social media is so awful.
rideontime 4y ago
> Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously Why do you believe this?
- baryphonic 4y ago
  I admit I cannot verify this, nor do I wish to given the subject matter I'm taking it from sources I've found trustworthy
memish 4y ago
All that and with 50%+ less overhead. It being an unequivocal success is breaking people that have built their personality around hating someone and are desperate to see them fail.
chinathrow 4y ago
They removed the origin label, e.g. Twitter for iOS or Twitter for Android or any of the scheduling services. I always looked at that label to see if it's a manual or a scheduled tweet.
mandeepj 4y ago
> The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years... There are more people at a funeral than at a birthday.
BryantD 4y ago
Where’s this moderation transparency? Can you point me at the clear explanation for why Crimethinc was suspended? Musk says that Ye was suspended for inciting violence. Does that mean anyone posting a swastika will be suspended? Since Musk says permanent suspensions are bad, does that mean Ye gets to come back at some point? If so, what are the conditions? Twitter has stated that they’re relying more heavily on automation. Musk claimed he was going to open the algorithms. Are the automated abuse detection algorithms available for inspection? (Hopefully not, since that makes it easier to avoid them, but perhaps Musk should have considered that before making promises.)
vkou 4y ago
> How is Twitter a fiasco? Making a deal to pay 44 billion dollars for a 30 billion dollar company with no cancellation clause, and then spending 6 months desperately, and very loudly trying to back out of that deal is definitively a fiasco. Whether or not his stewardship of it will turn a 30 billion dollar company into a... Much less valuable company... is, however, not a question that we can definitively answer - at this time.
- baryphonic 4y ago
  How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? Their relationship is tenuous at most. Also, the macroeconomic conditions between April and July were entirely different. I can see why someone would go along with a bad deal in a world where interest rates are quite low, then get cold feet when interest rates spike up. Maybe that's not optimal deal-making, but it's hardly a "fiasco."
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? How does it not? Revenue streams - ads, putting features behind a paywall, etc. - all affect UX.
  - vkou 4y ago
    > How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? It doesn't, but I never said that I was talking about fiascos for the customers. Time will tell with Twitter on that subject. That would be something alongside blatant lies like "FSD next year" and "Your tesla will taxi people around while you sleep", but if I pointed at that, someone would certainly come along, point at the Tesla stock price, and tell me that this is not actually a fiasco because he's the richest man in the world. > I can see why someone would go along with a bad deal in a world where interest rates are quite low, then get cold feet when interest rates spike up. I cannot see why they would go in to buy one of the sickest of the big tech firms, at a premium, in an economy built on funny money, with no escape hatch, and then proceed to piss on everyone within shouting distance when they get buyers' remorse. Or rather, I can see why they would do that, but it doesn't reflect very well on them.
eli 4y ago
lol

Sebb767 4y ago

Twitter looks chaotic right now. But to see his actual impact we'll have to wait for a few years.

esalman 4y ago
He's been selling the Tesla crowd on "wait a few years" as well when it comes to FSD.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  But this time, it's not wait a few years for something to maybe happen, but wait a few years to see how Twitters numbers develop. If Twitter has a quarter of the market share in 2 years we can say that yes, Elon failed, but right now it's hard to judge.
  - esalman 4y ago
    How would you define market share? Elon has also been trying to upsell Twitter numbers, so that doesn't generate a lot of confidence.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chroma 4y ago
  I mean... FSD has rolled out to every vehicle in North America that bought the feature. It's definitely not perfect, but it's getting better every update. Yes the timelines have been much longer than Musk claimed, but you can watch tons of YouTube videos of the cars driving themselves. Failure seems to be less and less likely as time goes on.
yabones 4y ago
Well if you're impatient like me you'll be happy to know that once they miss the first $1.5 billion interest payment they'll either default, or he'll have to sell off massive chunks of Tesla shares or stake in Spacex, potentially blowing up multiple companies in the process. So it might take a singular year or less to see how it goes.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

As an end user what’s even changed? Seems the same to me. Just Bluechecks and journalists angry that they’ll no longer be a special class of user on the site so they’re claiming it’s over and a disaster when really it hasn’t changed to the end user.

pessimizer 4y ago
It's funny that the reaction to the twitter moderation team being reduced to still enormous was to move to Mastodon, with no moderation teams other than the guy who runs the node.
- kortex 4y ago
  I think the big difference is on Mastodon, you have way finer-grained control over what content you are exposed to. Twitter is more like one giant global state, so if there is toxic content, it can leak to way more eyeballs that don't want to see it.

fabiandesimone 4y ago

WHAT

DocTomoe 4y ago

Twitter was a fiasco before Musk took over, though.