2 ms·

> these lifelong genetic differences I'm not aware of convincing evidence that bipolar and schizophrenia are of genetic origin (other than that schizophrenia s

> these lifelong genetic differences I'm not aware of convincing evidence that bipolar and schizophrenia are of genetic origin (other than that schizophrenia sometimes runs in families). There are serious people that insist that they originate in childhood trauma. And since childhood trauma also sometimes runs in families, family histories of schizophrenia aren't that convincing either.

waterhouse 4y ago
Wiki says "Genetic factors account for about 70–90% of the risk of developing bipolar disorder." https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/resources-support/bipolar-disorder/causes/ https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/resources-support/bipol... says 80%, and says "If one parent has bipolar disorder, there’s a 10% chance that their child will develop the illness. / If both parents have bipolar disorder, the likelihood of their child developing bipolar disorder rises to 40%." One of the cited papers is "Family, twin, and adoption studies of bipolar disorder". Link that gives only the abstract: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14601036/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14601036/ I haven't dug into the paper yet, but there's a starting point. Edit: The paper says "More recent (and rigorous) studies that have compared concordance rates specifically of bipolar disorder among MZ [monozygotic] and DZ [dizygotic] twin pairs are summarized in table 2." The table shows four studies that gave concordances of 0.00-0.08 for dizygotic twins, and 0.36-0.75 for monozygotic twins.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > If both parents have bipolar disorder, the likelihood of their child developing bipolar disorder rises to 40% If both parents were traumatized as kids, and childhood trauma runs in families, then that adds no weight to claims that the disorder is genetic. To show a genetic origin, you have to point to a gene, not a pile of statistics.
  - waterhouse 4y ago
    Did you see the part about monozygotic vs dizygotic twins? Do you have any explanation other than genetics for it? For example, do you think parents are 4.5-9x more likely to traumatize both their twin children if the twins are identical instead of fraternal?

waterhouse 4y ago

Wiki says "Genetic factors account for about 70–90% of the risk of developing bipolar disorder." https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/resources-support/bipolar-disorder/causes/ https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/resources-support/bipol... says 80%, and says "If one parent has bipolar disorder, there’s a 10% chance that their child will develop the illness. / If both parents have bipolar disorder, the likelihood of their child developing bipolar disorder rises to 40%." One of the cited papers is "Family, twin, and adoption studies of bipolar disorder". Link that gives only the abstract: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14601036/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14601036/ I haven't dug into the paper yet, but there's a starting point. Edit: The paper says "More recent (and rigorous) studies that have compared concordance rates specifically of bipolar disorder among MZ [monozygotic] and DZ [dizygotic] twin pairs are summarized in table 2." The table shows four studies that gave concordances of 0.00-0.08 for dizygotic twins, and 0.36-0.75 for monozygotic twins.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> If both parents have bipolar disorder, the likelihood of their child developing bipolar disorder rises to 40% If both parents were traumatized as kids, and childhood trauma runs in families, then that adds no weight to claims that the disorder is genetic. To show a genetic origin, you have to point to a gene, not a pile of statistics.
- waterhouse 4y ago
  Did you see the part about monozygotic vs dizygotic twins? Do you have any explanation other than genetics for it? For example, do you think parents are 4.5-9x more likely to traumatize both their twin children if the twins are identical instead of fraternal?