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So Musk, who has done and is doing a lot to reduce air pollution(which is causing 6.5 million deaths per year) and climate change is sociopathic, but all the oi

So Musk, who has done and is doing a lot to reduce air pollution(which is causing 6.5 million deaths per year) and climate change is sociopathic, but all the oil executives get a free pass, got it. Care to expand how he's sociopathic?

michaelt 4y ago
camillomiller didn't say oil executives aren't sociopathic.
bmitc 4y ago
This is the same pope of climate change who wanted to build concrete tunnels underneath cities to transmit a single brand of car and wants to build gigantic rockets to go to Mars in a billionaire pissing contest? The likelihood of EVs and Tesla in particular impacting climate change is minuscule and much overhyped and oversold.
- belltaco 4y ago
  How are those things sociopathic?
  - bmitc 4y ago
    I was responding to the idea that he is supposedly a savior for climate change. Regarding sociopathy, I’m not a psychologist, but he seems clearly a narcissist. He almost feels too sensitive and needy to be a sociopath, but who knows.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Tesla ignited this EV moment. If humanity using EVs will have a minuscule impact on climate change, then you are correct.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bmitc 4y ago
    > Tesla ignited this EV moment. While fairly true, it isn't really relevant to climate change. If anything, the EV movement has reignited the love of the car, which is harmful to curbing climate change. Building one mile of a one lane road emits 400 times the emissions of building an EV, and building EVs actually emits more emissions than an ICE car. EVs only cross over to be more emissions friendly about 6-24 months into driving ownership, ignoring battery disposal and recycling. EVs are the most overblown response to climate change that will ultimately do nothing. Rockets are absolutely terrible for climate change. They dump huge amounts of pollutants directly into the atmosphere, including the upper atmosphere. https://transdef.org/media/Sightline-GHG-analysis.pdf https://transdef.org/media/Sightline-GHG-analysis.pdf https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rocket-launches-less-polluting https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rock... The fact that people see Musk as actually caring about climate change is disheartening. In fact, it may even be the case that Musk and his companies are a net negative in terms of mitigating climate change.
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      It sounds like you are arguing that EVs make people want to drive, which is worse than if they would just use public transportation or something? Rockets have a negligible impact on climate change relative to ICE vehicles.
doctorwho42 4y ago
(1) Reducing localized air pollution by offsetting it somewhere else. The creation and use of cars is one of the most inefficient ways of transporting people to date. And this doesn't take into account all the environmental damage causes by mining practices to get the metals used for his battery and the car. (2) Musk actively hampers government investment in one of the best pieces of infrastructure for reducing transportation related climate change and pollution. See his rebranded vacuum tube train aka the Hyperloop [circa 1799 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain] and how it stopped government investment in high speed rail in California (3) as for the sociopathic tendencies. The dude claims all the credit for every company he has ever been apart of. Dude doesn't even have a physics degree but doesn't correct people. He is actively promoting the great man of history theory [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory] which is complete bullshit. It takes a group of people to accomplish most great things of history. Hannibal crossing the Alps by himself wouldnt even be a foot note in history of Rome... But with his officers helping him push his military through and into Italy... Well one of the greatest enemies of Rome in her history. Same thing with spaceX, Elon musk didnt design and make his companies rockets... He hired great leaders to dedicate to who made it happen. He is just a 21st century salesman.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  In all fairness, high speed rail in California was an outrageous boondoggle without Musk's help.
- belltaco 4y ago
  >The creation and use of cars is one of the most inefficient ways of transporting people to date. And this doesn't take into account all the environmental damage causes by mining practices to get the metals used for his battery and the car EVs replacing gas guzzling cars and SUVs is a win for the environment. You're just regurgitating the oil lobby's misinformation. >See his rebranded vacuum tube train aka the Hyperloop [circa 1799 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain] and how it stopped government investment in high speed rail in California Do you have a source for "how it stopped government investment in high speed rail in California"? >The dude claims all the credit for every company he has ever been apart of. Trivially debunked, he gives Karpathy the limelight on AI Day, and lets the battery engineers talk on stage on Battery day. >He is actively promoting the great man of history theory [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory] which is complete bullshit Source? The rest aren't even sociopathic tendencies. Being a good salesman, which any CEO should be, isn't sociopathic.
philjohn 4y ago
That would be worth a damn if he hadn't turned around and sold the carbon credits he got for building EV's to ICE car manufacturers.
- chrisjc 4y ago
  Wait! Wasn't that the point of these credits in the first place? Penalizing ICE auto manufacturers who weren't doing enough switching to clean energy alternatives, while also rewarding the competition that were trying embrace these alternatives? Effectively having those that weren't doing anything subsidize those that were.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    But if he'd not sold them, then the other manufacturers would have been forced to reduce emissions even more - otherwise it's just a cost of business (passed on to consumers). It's not some altruistic move - it propped up Tesla's balance sheet when it was needed, and makes a mockery of his green credentials.

michaelt 4y ago

camillomiller didn't say oil executives aren't sociopathic.

bmitc 4y ago

This is the same pope of climate change who wanted to build concrete tunnels underneath cities to transmit a single brand of car and wants to build gigantic rockets to go to Mars in a billionaire pissing contest? The likelihood of EVs and Tesla in particular impacting climate change is minuscule and much overhyped and oversold.

belltaco 4y ago
How are those things sociopathic?
- bmitc 4y ago
  I was responding to the idea that he is supposedly a savior for climate change. Regarding sociopathy, I’m not a psychologist, but he seems clearly a narcissist. He almost feels too sensitive and needy to be a sociopath, but who knows.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Tesla ignited this EV moment. If humanity using EVs will have a minuscule impact on climate change, then you are correct.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bmitc 4y ago
  > Tesla ignited this EV moment. While fairly true, it isn't really relevant to climate change. If anything, the EV movement has reignited the love of the car, which is harmful to curbing climate change. Building one mile of a one lane road emits 400 times the emissions of building an EV, and building EVs actually emits more emissions than an ICE car. EVs only cross over to be more emissions friendly about 6-24 months into driving ownership, ignoring battery disposal and recycling. EVs are the most overblown response to climate change that will ultimately do nothing. Rockets are absolutely terrible for climate change. They dump huge amounts of pollutants directly into the atmosphere, including the upper atmosphere. https://transdef.org/media/Sightline-GHG-analysis.pdf https://transdef.org/media/Sightline-GHG-analysis.pdf https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rocket-launches-less-polluting https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rock... The fact that people see Musk as actually caring about climate change is disheartening. In fact, it may even be the case that Musk and his companies are a net negative in terms of mitigating climate change.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    It sounds like you are arguing that EVs make people want to drive, which is worse than if they would just use public transportation or something? Rockets have a negligible impact on climate change relative to ICE vehicles.

doctorwho42 4y ago

(1) Reducing localized air pollution by offsetting it somewhere else. The creation and use of cars is one of the most inefficient ways of transporting people to date. And this doesn't take into account all the environmental damage causes by mining practices to get the metals used for his battery and the car. (2) Musk actively hampers government investment in one of the best pieces of infrastructure for reducing transportation related climate change and pollution. See his rebranded vacuum tube train aka the Hyperloop [circa 1799 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain] and how it stopped government investment in high speed rail in California (3) as for the sociopathic tendencies. The dude claims all the credit for every company he has ever been apart of. Dude doesn't even have a physics degree but doesn't correct people. He is actively promoting the great man of history theory [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory] which is complete bullshit. It takes a group of people to accomplish most great things of history. Hannibal crossing the Alps by himself wouldnt even be a foot note in history of Rome... But with his officers helping him push his military through and into Italy... Well one of the greatest enemies of Rome in her history. Same thing with spaceX, Elon musk didnt design and make his companies rockets... He hired great leaders to dedicate to who made it happen. He is just a 21st century salesman.

pfdietz 4y ago
In all fairness, high speed rail in California was an outrageous boondoggle without Musk's help.
belltaco 4y ago
>The creation and use of cars is one of the most inefficient ways of transporting people to date. And this doesn't take into account all the environmental damage causes by mining practices to get the metals used for his battery and the car EVs replacing gas guzzling cars and SUVs is a win for the environment. You're just regurgitating the oil lobby's misinformation. >See his rebranded vacuum tube train aka the Hyperloop [circa 1799 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain] and how it stopped government investment in high speed rail in California Do you have a source for "how it stopped government investment in high speed rail in California"? >The dude claims all the credit for every company he has ever been apart of. Trivially debunked, he gives Karpathy the limelight on AI Day, and lets the battery engineers talk on stage on Battery day. >He is actively promoting the great man of history theory [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory] which is complete bullshit Source? The rest aren't even sociopathic tendencies. Being a good salesman, which any CEO should be, isn't sociopathic.

philjohn 4y ago

That would be worth a damn if he hadn't turned around and sold the carbon credits he got for building EV's to ICE car manufacturers.

chrisjc 4y ago
Wait! Wasn't that the point of these credits in the first place? Penalizing ICE auto manufacturers who weren't doing enough switching to clean energy alternatives, while also rewarding the competition that were trying embrace these alternatives? Effectively having those that weren't doing anything subsidize those that were.
- philjohn 4y ago
  But if he'd not sold them, then the other manufacturers would have been forced to reduce emissions even more - otherwise it's just a cost of business (passed on to consumers). It's not some altruistic move - it propped up Tesla's balance sheet when it was needed, and makes a mockery of his green credentials.