3 ms·

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” - Stephen Jay Gould

mc32 4y ago
And there is no evidence a basic income would have altered that trajectory. People with a particular drive are the ones who find a way. There are smart people out there but a lot of them get into boring jobs because they are easy. They don’t particularly like difficult exploration. Will some opportunities have been missed? Yes, but that’s life. Nature isn’t about maximizing everything.
- borbulon 4y ago
  > And there is no evidence a basic income would have altered that trajectory. There's no evidence either way. You're citing lack of evidence on something that's barely been tested, much less had enough time in the wild to have its effects studied.
- Dudeman112 4y ago
  I'm no genius, but in a world where I was born in a nation with UBI (or just expected a fat inheritance) I would have taken that masters in Bioinformatics scholarship and continued my research instead of writing shit code so businesses can make money Lots of people who graduated with me followed the same path for the same reason
  - BoGoToTo 4y ago
    Yep, smartest guy I knew in my physics program dropped out of his masters when he realized he would earn more in a year at a MAGMA than he would over half a decade begging for grants.
  - bearmode 4y ago
    If given a UBI, I'd definitely be going back to university.
- mistermann 4y ago
  > And there is no evidence a basic income would have altered that trajectory. If one does not try something, should one expect there to be evidence of how well it works? > People with a particular drive are the ones who find a way. Tautological thinking can be useful, but it is a double edged sword. > There are smart people out there but a lot of them get into boring jobs because they are easy. They don’t particularly like difficult exploration. Agreed, perhaps there is a lack of instruction in how to think in an exploratory manner. Maybe we are too short term results oriented. > Will some opportunities have been missed? Yes, but that’s life. a) Confident delusional beliefs about free will aside, it is at least plausible that the state of affairs at any given snapshot in time is a consequence of our actions that preceded it. b) People in relatively comfortable positions often are more comfortable with the current state of affairs than those who are not in a comfortable position. > Nature isn’t about maximizing everything. It also isn't (or doesn't have to be) about having no interest in optimizing the environment in a manner that benefits all people, but it seems this is the local maxima we're stuck at, for now.
  - mc32 4y ago
    I don't disagree with much of anything you're saying. At the same time, I don't see UBI as a decent cure. The market is imperfect (as we see it's attracting outsized talent to selling crass ads) and on the other hand, central planning/state enterprises (Soviet-style) also has shortcomings which are even worse --though they do well in developing talent for where it's needed (however they are bad at figuring out 'needs') and suffers from gross mismanagement in operations. So, given the above, it would seem there is a place for a middle-ground somewhere, I just don't see the magic in UBI necessary to achieve that. One option is what kind of exists in certain underattracted/underserved areas where the government underwrites someone's education in return for service. So there are grants one can receive in exchange for service commitment after graduation. Obviously you can't "play around" and try to figure out if you like something and then something else... You have to know what you want.
    - mistermann 4y ago
      We don't disagree.....Doreen and I are chatting about some alternative approaches here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33881262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33881262 Fundamentally, we seem to be unable to consider whether our approach is wrong, never mind where we're going to get the money. And as for me: I do not believe this to be an accident, and I do not believe it to be only those dirty Republicans / religious people: I think western culture itself is a fucking disaster that needs to be rewritten from the ground up.
BitwiseFool 4y ago
This tugs at the heartstrings but it is more sentimental than substantial. Why not consider the number of people with potential and talent that would never discover it because they didn't need to work or apply themselves thanks to a UBI?

mc32 4y ago

And there is no evidence a basic income would have altered that trajectory. People with a particular drive are the ones who find a way. There are smart people out there but a lot of them get into boring jobs because they are easy. They don’t particularly like difficult exploration. Will some opportunities have been missed? Yes, but that’s life. Nature isn’t about maximizing everything.

borbulon 4y ago
> And there is no evidence a basic income would have altered that trajectory. There's no evidence either way. You're citing lack of evidence on something that's barely been tested, much less had enough time in the wild to have its effects studied.
Dudeman112 4y ago
I'm no genius, but in a world where I was born in a nation with UBI (or just expected a fat inheritance) I would have taken that masters in Bioinformatics scholarship and continued my research instead of writing shit code so businesses can make money Lots of people who graduated with me followed the same path for the same reason
- BoGoToTo 4y ago
  Yep, smartest guy I knew in my physics program dropped out of his masters when he realized he would earn more in a year at a MAGMA than he would over half a decade begging for grants.
- bearmode 4y ago
  If given a UBI, I'd definitely be going back to university.
mistermann 4y ago
> And there is no evidence a basic income would have altered that trajectory. If one does not try something, should one expect there to be evidence of how well it works? > People with a particular drive are the ones who find a way. Tautological thinking can be useful, but it is a double edged sword. > There are smart people out there but a lot of them get into boring jobs because they are easy. They don’t particularly like difficult exploration. Agreed, perhaps there is a lack of instruction in how to think in an exploratory manner. Maybe we are too short term results oriented. > Will some opportunities have been missed? Yes, but that’s life. a) Confident delusional beliefs about free will aside, it is at least plausible that the state of affairs at any given snapshot in time is a consequence of our actions that preceded it. b) People in relatively comfortable positions often are more comfortable with the current state of affairs than those who are not in a comfortable position. > Nature isn’t about maximizing everything. It also isn't (or doesn't have to be) about having no interest in optimizing the environment in a manner that benefits all people, but it seems this is the local maxima we're stuck at, for now.
- mc32 4y ago
  I don't disagree with much of anything you're saying. At the same time, I don't see UBI as a decent cure. The market is imperfect (as we see it's attracting outsized talent to selling crass ads) and on the other hand, central planning/state enterprises (Soviet-style) also has shortcomings which are even worse --though they do well in developing talent for where it's needed (however they are bad at figuring out 'needs') and suffers from gross mismanagement in operations. So, given the above, it would seem there is a place for a middle-ground somewhere, I just don't see the magic in UBI necessary to achieve that. One option is what kind of exists in certain underattracted/underserved areas where the government underwrites someone's education in return for service. So there are grants one can receive in exchange for service commitment after graduation. Obviously you can't "play around" and try to figure out if you like something and then something else... You have to know what you want.
  - mistermann 4y ago
    We don't disagree.....Doreen and I are chatting about some alternative approaches here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33881262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33881262 Fundamentally, we seem to be unable to consider whether our approach is wrong, never mind where we're going to get the money. And as for me: I do not believe this to be an accident, and I do not believe it to be only those dirty Republicans / religious people: I think western culture itself is a fucking disaster that needs to be rewritten from the ground up.

BitwiseFool 4y ago

This tugs at the heartstrings but it is more sentimental than substantial. Why not consider the number of people with potential and talent that would never discover it because they didn't need to work or apply themselves thanks to a UBI?