8 ms·

> Over represented compared to what? In the case of gender dysphoria, the obvious comparison would be, compared to a society where one can subvert gender norms

> Over represented compared to what? In the case of gender dysphoria, the obvious comparison would be, compared to a society where one can subvert gender norms and be accepted without changing one's identity. The emergence of trans movement has created a space where gender-nonconforming people can find more acceptance, but it comes with own set of norms and requirements. One of which is that one must change their identity and, in many cases, conform to the norms of your newly chosen identity (certainly not everyone in the trans community enforces identity-based gender norms, but that's also true of general society when it comes to sex-based norms. In my experience, they're both about as bad as each other. I've lost count of the number of times people have told me that I must be a certain way or have had certain experiences because of my gender identity).

brookst 4y ago
I kept waiting for you to support the “over represented” claim. Much disappointment. Over represented compared to what real thing? What should the representation be, in terms of percent, compared to what we see today?
- nicoburns 4y ago
  The "real" thing would be the gender dysphoria present if people weren't subject to a society telling them that if they don't conform to the norms of <gender> then they can't be <gender>, they must be <other gender>. A society that conflates wanting to live and present in a certain way with wanting a certain body type (these are both valid things to want, but they ought to be treated as independent phenomena rather than as being linked by an abstract concept of gender). Having such an escape is better than not having it, but it's far from an ideal gender free society (where we effectively treat everyone as having a non-binary gender), in which I suspect we would see a lot less gender dysphoria. Allowing people to choose which set of gender norms they want to follow is still enforcing gender norms if you expect people to choose a single identity and don't allow people to freely mix and match.

brookst 4y ago

I kept waiting for you to support the “over represented” claim. Much disappointment. Over represented compared to what real thing? What should the representation be, in terms of percent, compared to what we see today?

nicoburns 4y ago
The "real" thing would be the gender dysphoria present if people weren't subject to a society telling them that if they don't conform to the norms of <gender> then they can't be <gender>, they must be <other gender>. A society that conflates wanting to live and present in a certain way with wanting a certain body type (these are both valid things to want, but they ought to be treated as independent phenomena rather than as being linked by an abstract concept of gender). Having such an escape is better than not having it, but it's far from an ideal gender free society (where we effectively treat everyone as having a non-binary gender), in which I suspect we would see a lot less gender dysphoria. Allowing people to choose which set of gender norms they want to follow is still enforcing gender norms if you expect people to choose a single identity and don't allow people to freely mix and match.